John Brzenk | GREATEST Arm Wrestler Of All Time

John Brzenk (00:00):

Country or

Sevan Matossian (00:01):

Just whatever. I talk to you every couple years and it’s always a new location, but I think I recognize this spot.

John Brzenk (00:07):

Yeah, no, I’ve been here almost 10 years now. I don’t move around very much. I’ve lived in three houses pretty much my adult life.

Sevan Matossian (00:18):

I only talk to you every 10 years,

John Brzenk (00:19):

Right? Yeah. It’s been a while.

Sevan Matossian (00:23):

Every video I’ve seen of you, you look like you’re a hundred, now you’re back to 40. What happened? You go back into your house, you turn into a young man again.

John Brzenk (00:31):

I look like I’m 40.

Sevan Matossian (00:32):

I can’t believe how young you look right now. All the videos I’ve seen of you, you look like Zeus. Now you look a little like a cherub again.

John Brzenk (00:42):

Oh yeah. I did this crazy fasting weight cut from LBO match to this recent match that I had last week. I crazily went to try to make a, well, I actually did make 2 0 9, so I lost almost 30 pounds. So that probably has a lot to do with it.

Sevan Matossian (01:01):

Yeah, that’s nuts. I was watching that interview of you sitting on the couch with that guy talking about it.

John Brzenk (01:08):

Oh yeah, Ray Ray, coach Ray, yeah.

Sevan Matossian (01:11):

Where did you go wrestle? Tell me that whole, by the way. Hi, good to see you. Thanks for doing this.

John Brzenk (01:16):

Yeah, no worries.

Sevan Matossian (01:17):

I think I had two phone numbers in your, I think somehow in my phone I had too many phone numbers for you, so when I was texting you, they weren’t going through. Oh,

John Brzenk (01:28):


Sevan Matossian (01:29):

And then Travis was like, Hey, maybe he doesn’t like you anymore. I’m like, dude, shut up. He loves me. I love him. What are you talking about?

John Brzenk (01:38):

So are you still doing the fitness? I’m just

Sevan Matossian (01:42):

Doing the podcast dude, and raising my kids. That’s it.

John Brzenk (01:45):

Okay. Yeah, but I mean, what’s your focus on the podcast still? Pretty much with CrossFit or healthy just workout guys, crazy guys that are doing crazy fitness things.

Sevan Matossian (01:54):

Yeah, I mean, I’d like to have other people on here. I had a porn stars, businessman, politician, flat earthers. I’d like to expand my

John Brzenk (02:05):

Right, do the full Joe Rogan thing, right?

Sevan Matossian (02:08):

Yeah. But occasionally, yeah, but exactly a little Joe Rogan with little Howard Stern. A little mix. Cool. God, I don’t even remember what year it was. Did pulling John come out in 2004? Six? Boy,

John Brzenk (02:29):

You would know better than I thought the filming was probably maybe the early two thousands, but yeah, I don’t know when it actually came out. Did it come out that, yeah, I guess it did come out. So the footage was probably what, late nineties to early two thousands? It was nearly five, six years between the footage and

Sevan Matossian (02:48):

That movie

John Brzenk (02:49):

Come out?

Sevan Matossian (02:50):

Yeah. Okay, let’s just, let’s say it’s somewhere between 15 and 20 years and then the climax is us going to Poland. And you were 2 0 9 then, right?

John Brzenk (03:04):

Right. I weigh 2 0 9. Yeah.

Sevan Matossian (03:07):

And then you were with those monsters, Travis Alexi. What was the other big guy’s name from Colorado? Mike

John Brzenk (03:14):

Matt Gerdner. Matt

Sevan Matossian (03:15):

Gerdner. Damn. How did I forget that? Matt Gerdner. And you guys wrestle and it’s kind of absurd because you meet Alexi in the overalls, right?

John Brzenk (03:27):

Yeah, yeah. We were different weight classes. So at the time they had what they call an overall, so they take the champions or whoever, many people want to basically participate in the overall after the tournament to see who the top dogs are throughout no matter what the weight class. So yeah, I didn’t pull him until the overalls

Sevan Matossian (03:49):

And then you had that crazy match with taught us, right?

John Brzenk (03:55):

Yeah. He was also in the overall, so yeah, there was a bunch of tough guys to navigate before we worked on Alexi or tried to do anything with Alexi.

Sevan Matossian (04:04):

And in that match with Todd us, it went probably as bad as it can go for a match. You won. He kept completely pulled you over and basically you had to just completely bring him back.

John Brzenk (04:15):

Yeah, completely. Yeah. He took my hand, he top rolled me, and so I had arm muscle at a very awkward position and yeah, it was ugly, but I was successful at doing it. But yeah.

Sevan Matossian (04:31):

Then whose hair Brainin idea was it for you 15 or 20 years later to wrestle Alexi again? How did that happen?

John Brzenk (04:42):

I don’t know. Alexi decided, I think it was more Alexi’s doing than my doing. We never really searched him out. He decided to make a comeback to the sport. He made a little comeback about, I don’t know, five, six years ago and pulled Tim. I don’t know if you saw that.

Sevan Matossian (04:58):

I didn’t. I didn’t.

John Brzenk (04:59):

That was something that Igor set up. But I think Lui’s kind of a busy man. He’s been doing a lot of things outside of arm wrestling, but things have calmed down a little bit. So I think he just decided that he’s always been kind of very, obviously a very athletic and strength oriented guy. So I think it was just fitting that he finally decided he wanted to make a real strong comeback after, I guess it’s been 18 years since we last pulled. That’s what I was told. But yeah, so it was more his doing saying that he wanted to come back and what would be more fitting than to give me a shot. I’ve been armes now since, I don’t know, about two years now, two and a half years. So I made my comeback and I was a good challenge, formidable, but yet vulnerable to still possibly getting beat. I was maybe winning 80% of my matches. So yeah, GaN I think initially lined it up and then we ended up going over to Dubai and doing it with the king of the table.

Sevan Matossian (06:08):

So here’s where he is. This is how big he was the first time he pulled him. I’m guessing he was closer to 300 than two 50 when you met him.

John Brzenk (06:16):

I’m thinking 2 65, 2 70. I don’t know exactly what he weighed, but yeah, I’m going to say maybe two 70 versus when we pull, I think he weighed in at 2 45 ish, two 50, so still fairly good size individual. He definitely put some meat on the bone from when he was completely out of the sport. He had gotten I think close to probably more 2 20, 2 25 while he was out of the sport completely. But yeah, not as big as he was 18 years ago, but still a formidable strong human being.

Sevan Matossian (06:55):

Two time Olympian I think Judo and bobsled.

John Brzenk (06:58):

Oh, I never heard about the judo. I didn’t know that about it.

Sevan Matossian (07:01):

Judo first I think, and then bobsled.

John Brzenk (07:05):


Sevan Matossian (07:06):

Heard his name Judo or something.

John Brzenk (07:08):

Okay. Yeah, no, he is still in just incredible shape. I mean all around just not our messing shape, just an all around just agile athlete. I mean, could probably do anything that he wanted to do.

Sevan Matossian (07:22):

And Travis told me you had no chance.

John Brzenk (07:27):

That’s what people were giving me pretty much no chance. A lot of people were giving me no chance. Yeah, I

Sevan Matossian (07:34):

Saw some polls too. The polls weren’t favorite. Yeah,

John Brzenk (07:37):

I was doing okay, having some decent matches against, I would say top tier guys, top 20 guys, little bit of success, little bit of occasional missteps, but the footage that he was putting out there, he was doing typical crazy strength arm wrestling related lifts. So based on that, I think people kind of gave me no chance. He’s just, he’s back and he’s strong as ever. But yeah, it kind of played in my head too, like, okay, here we go again. I’m getting myself into something a little bit way over my head. But once I got there and looked at him and we kind hung out a little bit and I just got more and more confident as I was there, I thought, well, if not now, then never. So I can’t be hesitant. I just got to go full bore. I mean it’s best shape as I can be in at this point in my life and to see where it goes, and luckily enough it went a little bit to my side of the table and I was able to hang on and secure the victory.

Sevan Matossian (08:48):

I’m going to ask you a question that you’re not going to like.

John Brzenk (08:51):


Sevan Matossian (08:52):

Was it easy?

John Brzenk (08:55):

No. I mean it could have went either way. You know how arming is? I mean, arming,

Sevan Matossian (08:59):

You made it look easy. No one. Yeah,

John Brzenk (09:02):

Arming is a matter of just micro starts and timing and refereeing and all these things. People think, oh, that doesn’t matter. That doesn’t matter. But it could look easy and then you could get beat the next match. I mean, that’s how that match went. It was like if the start was a little bit better for him and it just a little bit hair more on his side, even though he did get the jump on me in the first match, it makes all the difference in the world. So what seemingly looks like I’m in total control and it is easy, is like just borderline could easily have gone the other way.

Sevan Matossian (09:41):

If it was easy, would you tell us?

John Brzenk (09:44):

Yeah. I mean you can see on my face and the way I approached it that everything had to be perfect for to go that way. And still if it was super easy, I would’ve controlled the match. When I tried to hook him, I think the third or fourth, I think it was the fourth match, I tried to hook him. And even though I was close to still beating him in the hook, he still out muscled me, and so he was stronger. So yeah, no, you could tell by that that I wasn’t in total control. Things could have definitely gone wrong, easily gone wrong.

Sevan Matossian (10:18):

When you pull someone like that, or let’s say when you go down to 2 0 9, you would never get under a bar, a back squat bar and the person’s like, Hey, I’m not going to tell you how much this weighs, but we’re going to pull this lever and the weight’s going to sit on your shoulder and you’re going to have to squat it. If it’s 1800 pounds, you’re dead. Do you ever have that fear that you go up there against if you go against a zipline cough or

John Brzenk (10:50):

Yes, unlike that scenario,

Sevan Matossian (10:56):

Maximum stop. He’s just going to snap your arm off.

John Brzenk (11:00):

Unlike your scenario of having a building fall on you, I still kind of know in the back of my mind how strong somebody can possibly be. I’ve been around long enough to know that the very, very best, the very strongest are still manageable. It’s not going to be complete destruction. So yeah, I have that in the back of my mind that I can still manage it. I mean, the worst case scenario is it takes you badly out of position. Your arm goes down. I’ve never been one of those guys that can mentally overcome what my physical abilities are, and in those kind of guys ended up hurting themselves, breaking their own arms. But so even though I occasionally think that way occasionally because I’ve gotten older and I’m thinking, okay, is this going to be the time that I’ve, I push it and end up hurting myself because I’m getting older, but I’ve been able to escape that so far. So

Sevan Matossian (12:04):

What’s the giant guy’s name? Levon.

John Brzenk (12:08):

Labon. Shalia. He’s with Georgian, Georgia guy.

Sevan Matossian (12:12):

There he is. But

John Brzenk (12:16):

Even with him as strong as he is, the most difficult part about him is just his enormous size. It’s like trying to arm muscle a tree trunk. I mean, you just can’t really get a hold of him to really exert your full pressure. So pulling someone like that, I mean until you can get you’re strong enough where you can have some type of control to really exert full pressure, he’s going to beat you and just really not going to seem like you put that much effort into it because he just takes you so badly out of position. And here he is pulling Es Gasparini, who’s probably got one of the best Travis badge style top roles in the business right now and kind of effective. He was able to, the back pressure definitely negates a lot of that cupping strength that Levo has, but he’s by far probably the best as far as cupping strength goes in size to be able to control that back pressure. But this was a good match.

Sevan Matossian (13:17):

There’s no fear. You get up there. There’s not like, okay, this guy’s so much stronger than me that I need to be ready to catch and not attack.

John Brzenk (13:28):

Well, I mean, you want to always have control of the match and put yourself in the best angles and the best position when you’re up against someone like Lavo, it’s really difficult to do because he’s normally dictating the match. But yes, I mean, I guess Imis just put himself in some pretty awkward position. He’s way out leveraged. He’s in a horrible position and he’s still not mentally giving up and he’s going to try to fight through it. And this is a dangerous, the way he’s pulling is very, definitely very dangerous that he could end up tearing something. But still, I always go back to, you break your own arm, you have to mentally be strong enough to do it to yourself. It’s not the other person that’s going to overwhelm you with some type of a jolt that’s going to make the difference. If you’re still mentally clear and aware of what’s going on, you should be able to hopefully get that signal that, oh, that’s more than my body can handle. And for me, it’s always been, even if I’m mentally saying, hang on, hang on, as hard as I can, my arm still, typically the tendons will just give away and my arm will open up. Maybe my bone structure and my frame over the years has developed to the point where that’s never going to be a risk. But yeah, enough for me, my attachment points seem to be stronger than my ability to statically hold some of those angles.

Sevan Matossian (14:59):

John, you said that you made a comeback two and a half years ago,

John Brzenk (15:03):

About two and a half, three years ago. Yeah. Now it seems like just yesterday, but it’s been almost a couple years plus years.

Sevan Matossian (15:09):

What were you doing? How long did you take off?

John Brzenk (15:13):

I stopped after my match in Las Vegas against Devin Lore in 2015. Shoulder was just getting to the point where it was just aggravating me enough where I couldn’t really practice just the inflammation, the arthritis that I just decided I’m just done. I just can’t really put a full effort into it and I can’t train the way I used to train. And so I gave it up and yeah, five, six years later, I decided I’m just going to fight through it and manage it the best I can and continue to compete at the level that I possibly can with my situation. And it’s been fun. I’m glad I did it. It’s been fun. I mean, it’s my family can’t stay away from family too long and then you start missing people. It’s like I know thousands of people through arm wrestling, so it was really difficult to be away and not be competitive.

Sevan Matossian (16:10):

And when you say manage it, you’re talking about the shoulder?

John Brzenk (16:13):

Just shoulder? Yeah. Well, I have to manage a lot of different things now. It’s mainly the shoulder is still the limiting thing that really keeps me from pulling away. I used to, and being able to apply the side pressure that I used to shoulder is such a key component for keeping your elbow tight to your torso and that separation there to have that is key to being successful at arm wrestling. But yeah, I have all the little aches and pains, the finger, the finger joints, the wrist joints. Now the hand, the elbow, it’s just typical inflammation, arthritis, whatever you want to call it. Age related issues that I try to deal with and overcome as best I can.

Sevan Matossian (16:57):

I mean, is there anyone you started when you were 18?

John Brzenk (17:02):

Yeah, I broke my arm when I was 13, so I’d already been really kind of arm wrestling into my early mid-teens, but not professionally until I was 18, 17, 18 years

Sevan Matossian (17:11):

Old. Any of those guys still around?

John Brzenk (17:15):

No, no, no. I started back in the early eighties. I was pretty young. There wasn’t too many guys that I was competing against that were as young as I was. So most of the guys that I knew in that era are long gone.

Sevan Matossian (17:29):

Is Cobra still arm wrestling at all at all?

John Brzenk (17:31):

He still dabbles in the sport with somewhat fair amount of success. I mean, he’s still going to beat 90% of the walking around public, but when he starts going up against competitors in his weight class, his weight class is super tough though. Those fly weights are incredibly strong and it’s so deep. There’s probably, I was going to say thousands of guys, but probably hundreds of guys that are just animals at that weight.

Sevan Matossian (18:00):

I was just thinking in terms of someone, I mean, he was around in the nineties, right?

John Brzenk (18:06):

Nineties, maybe even the late eighties. I’m trying to think

Sevan Matossian (18:11):

Of anyone from the old footage that I’ve seen who I still see now. Is Kevin still arm wrestling at all?

John Brzenk (18:16):

No, he doesn’t arm wrestling anymore. Ron Bass still arm muscles

Sevan Matossian (18:19):


John Brzenk (18:20):

He’s a year two older than I am, and he has fairly successful at it still. So

Sevan Matossian (18:29):


John Brzenk (18:29):

Possible. I mean, Todd Hutchin, who’s currently world champion, just be one of the best guy at 105 kilos is only two years younger, but of course he started in his late thirties, early forties. So he doesn’t have quite the wear and tear, but that really shouldn’t matter. I mean, we’re talking about typical age issues of the arthritis and that, but I think some people are lucky in that respect and some people aren’t as far as what they have to deal with when they get older.

Sevan Matossian (19:03):

It’s crazy. The work Todd’s put in, has he been wrestling just since?

John Brzenk (19:10):

Yeah, no, there’s definitely no lack of effort from Todd Hutchins. I think he’s, and for me, I’ve attempted to do some of the things that he claims to do and I break down really quickly. So it’s not for everybody.

Sevan Matossian (19:29):

His training regimen is intense.

John Brzenk (19:32):

If I try to do his training and people will say, oh, you just need to keep fighting through a fighting baloney when you’re on a like this and getting worse and worse and worse to the point where you’re almost being a crippled, well, when is the turnaround? So what he’s able to do is unique I think to his maybe nutrition, his genetics. I don’t know. There’s a few people that are out there that are like that Devon’s like that right now, just seemingly, seemingly he just can’t overtrain. I mean, the more he trains, the stronger he’s getting and he’s healthy and he’s not feeling the aches and pains and the negatives from it. But yeah, Todd definitely puts in a lot of work, but his body’s able to handle it.

Sevan Matossian (20:20):

I’m going to pull up this clip of you and Devin. This is from, what’s funny is this, Gary filmed this, but you can see me in the background here. I remember this. I remember filming this.

John Brzenk (20:34):

Alright, SHA.

Sevan Matossian (20:36):

Yeah, that’s right. Sha. Wow. Good memory. John. How do you remember that stuff? And that’s me holding up the camera in the background. And then on the right is Devin Lt. And then you’re on the left. And I remember when you were facing this, this was the first time I had seen Devin, but I had heard all these rumors of this guy who was just insane Canada,

John Brzenk (20:53):

Right? So this was 1999, 2021, really that early because I met Devin and pulled with Devin a little bit, I think, right and left in the world’s in Japan in 99. So if this was only a year or two later, I knew of Devin. So yeah, we already kind of,

Sevan Matossian (21:16):

And Marcio was there too. Do you remember that

John Brzenk (21:18):

Marcio? Yeah. A couple other decent pullers. I think there was an eight man class or six man class. I can’t remember what, I think it was eight man class.

Sevan Matossian (21:27):

And I think he had had a war with Marc, right?

John Brzenk (21:32):

Yeah. He drew Marcio first, and I think I pulled the other champion from Canada and I can’t remember what his name was. I think Luke, was it Luke? Er,

Sevan Matossian (21:43):

Luke? I can’t remember that name. Sounds familiar, but I can’t remember.

John Brzenk (21:47):

So anyway, yeah, they kind of want to separate us. They didn’t want the Americans pulling the Americans and the Canadians pulling the Canadians the first round. So yeah, he ended up pulling Marcio and then I think I got him the second, and there wasn’t that many rounds. I mean there wasn’t that many people in the class. It was kind of like, who’s who, round robin type of a setup.

Sevan Matossian (22:05):

And when we started filming, pulling John, I want to say maybe you were 40 or late thirties and you were talking about retiring

John Brzenk (22:14):

At that time. At that time, my shoulder wasn’t bothering me, it was my elbow. I had just the tendonitis in the inner elbow. And yeah, I don’t know, I think Armen was kind of at a low point. Armen has gone through cycles, right? Big promoters that come out and have these big tournaments and they’ll give it a go and then a few years later they disappear and it’s failed and there’s been kind of a lull. And I think at that time that was what the case was. I can’t remember who was promoting big at the time, but it kind of faded, faded out. And I just was like, okay, yeah, maybe this is a good time to maybe slow down and stopped doing it. And then I got the call from you guys and kind of prompted me back into the hanging in, into the sport

Sevan Matossian (23:04):

On the go here, could you share with us for a group that knows nothing about arm wrestling, but is able to understand human movement and the importa importance of it, what you’re doing, maybe what muscles you’re engaging, the actual directions you’re pulling, what you’re doing with your fingers as we start here. So I think this is Bill. No, that’s a great arm wrestler there. The ref too. What was his name?

John Brzenk (23:30):


Sevan Matossian (23:30):

Little black guy. He was amazing.

John Brzenk (23:34):

Dave Hicks, right?

Sevan Matossian (23:36):

Yes, yes, yes. Dave Hicks.

John Brzenk (23:39):

But yeah, so arm wrestling is mainly hand and forearm. All Armor are going to have huge forms because hand control is so important in the sport here, not so much, but you still have to have that cupping ability to force this match into what we call a hook, an inside brist.

Sevan Matossian (23:59):

Did he force that or did

John Brzenk (24:01):

I think I forced it? I think this is the second match that we’re looking at where the first time I ended up pronating outwards and then taking the leverage advantage outside into doing what we call a top roll. But here again it comes, what’s the most important is the hand strength to be able to lock down this cupping. And then from that point, if you can secure that, then rotating this way puts it, opens your opponent’s hand and puts them at a huge leverage advantage. So arm wrestling isn’t so much bicep, you’re not doing a lot of pulling this way. There is a little bit of back pressure, but it’s more the hand strength, being able to lock it down and then that rotation. So that pronation is super key to be super effective in taking your opponent’s arm to the side. But it is really not illustrated in this match. This matches. This matches about shoulder strength and pack and keeping that elbow tight to your torso and dragging more sideways. But here again, it’s not so much arm it’s hand and wrist to maintain that position and then it’s lat shoulder back keeping that elbow tight to the torso and then basically just rock your body sideways to open your opponent’s bicep.

Sevan Matossian (25:23):

So when he says go, are you not attacking, you’re just trying to hold the static position, you’re just trying to basically be like, Hey, you’re not coming through here?

John Brzenk (25:32):

Yeah, I mean I’ve got definitely, I’ve got the upper ground here, I’ve got the advantage. His hand is turned underneath and mine’s on top. He would require a lot more shoulder commitment and side pressure to get my hand to be more upright.

Sevan Matossian (25:46):

When you say your hand’s on top, you mean your knuckles are pointed up?

John Brzenk (25:50):

Now we’re fairly even, I think at this point that you’re showing, we’re pretty close to even, but we’re just kind of waiting each other out. I didn’t realize how good Devon’s endurance was until after this match. And I felt like, oh, I was dominant enough to maybe make this match last to the end where he basically quit, which wasn’t the case at all. But

Sevan Matossian (26:15):

You let him get into position there, right? He turns around,

John Brzenk (26:18):

Yeah. You make little surges. And if it doesn’t go all the way to the pad, if you don’t break down that tendon connection and they basically open up and break, then you have to reassess and then come back up to center and compose yourself. And by applying full offensive pressure all the time, it SAPs a lot of energy out of you. It’s like doing curls in the gym if you’re actually moving the weight, it’s a lot more energy than just statically holding onto the weight. And it’s the same with it applies to arm wrestling. By holding on in a defensive position, you definitely can conserve energy, especially if your opponent is actually trying to exert a little bit extra to offensively move you.

Sevan Matossian (27:04):

And then John, in about six seconds, you try to come out of the hook. Is that what I’m seeing? Can you explain that to people? So you’re in this position, I’m guessing you don’t like it. He got it. Looks like he’s getting some, yeah,

John Brzenk (27:15):

Well I’m just changing up the muscles. So I’m going from a shoulder tricep back, going to the side two, turning into a reverse curl pronation, applying pressure on his fingers to see how strong his forearm in hand and see if they’re blown up yet where I can attack. And here you here I go with the attacking the fingers by putting back pressure. So completely different direction wasn’t effective. So I ended up turning back into the hook, but it gave my arm a little bit of a break from having to maintain the side pressure. Then I turned back into holding sideways.

Sevan Matossian (27:58):

And you look up at him, why are you looking up at him to just assess his fatigue?

John Brzenk (28:03):

Just to assess, to judge, to see how much he’s exerting, see if I can get any kind of clue he’s about ready to give up or not. And that definitely was not the case with Devin. And I learned that, like I said, after this match and years later I realized that try to outlast Deon is not the proper approach. You need to be very aggressive and hit off the go, get rid of him quick. But yeah, that’s a smaller version of Devin. He’s definitely gotten way bigger, way stronger throughout the years, so wouldn’t be nearly as effective.

Sevan Matossian (28:44):

God, 20 years ago and you pulled him a couple years ago? A year ago?

John Brzenk (28:50):

Yeah, six months or a year into my comeback. Yeah, we did a rematch. Yeah, I think when I left the sport, he was probably the last guy that I beat in 2015. It was at the WAL event in Las Vegas.

Sevan Matossian (29:06):

And how much was he? And he was huge. Then

John Brzenk (29:11):

When we pulled at the WAL

Sevan Matossian (29:14):

One right here. Holy shit,

John Brzenk (29:16):

Caleb, I’m big. I’m 2 45, 2 50 biggest I’ve ever been in my life is right here in this photo.

Sevan Matossian (29:24):

So you were going for it?

John Brzenk (29:25):

Yeah, I was going for it. I was like, I hadn’t really had a lot of time to really get the tendon super hard, but I definitely shed the gloves and said, okay, I’m going to get as heavy and as big and as strong as I can possibly get for this match. And he’s probably 20, 30 pounds heavier than me. But I made it close. I mean as far as weight goes, but he was way stronger. Yeah, no, I blew up way too quick. Too easy. I had a little bit of a.

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