Does Size Matter… in CrossFit? ft. Patrick Vellner | Shut Up & Scribble Ep. 8

Taylor Self (00:01):

Bam. That wasti, that was good timing. Hit him with a fucking karate

Speaker 2 (00:06):

Shot. You just did it. I just told you, you did not say the F word <laugh> and you just did it <laugh>.

Taylor Self (00:14):

Dude, I can’t be contained, bro.

Speaker 2 (00:17):

Literally before the show, I tell Teyl I said, Hey dude, can

Taylor Self (00:20):

We end it and restart it?

JR Howell (00:21):

12 seconds

Speaker 2 (00:22):

Said we cant say in the first 30 seconds. Or dings the show for ads. And Taylor’s lets it rip before you did last time. Maybe five seconds, then just F-bomb.

Taylor Self (00:31):

Damn. Oh, here he is.

Speaker 2 (00:34):


Patrick Vellner (00:35):

What’s up guys?

Taylor Self (00:37):

I was not supposed to say the F word. Within 30 seconds of the show starting so that we didn’t get dinged for having ads and I slipped up.

JR Howell (00:46):

He made it, he made it 3.7 seconds.

Speaker 2 (00:49):


Patrick Vellner (00:50):

Oh man. What’s the, what’s your limit? When, what are you allowed, when is the, the muzzle come off

Taylor Self (00:57):

The, I think, I think after the 32nd mark, but it totally slipped my mind. Oh, well

Patrick Vellner (01:03):

We could just run 30 seconds of dead air if you like, if you can’t help yourself,

Taylor Self (01:07):


JR Howell (01:08):

Yeah, it’s gonna be tough with him. <laugh>. So what’s up with you dude? Easy day today. Recovery day.

Patrick Vellner (01:15):

Yeah. Thursdays are like my only day off. Um, I swim in the morning, but because I gotta, I do 50 meter lanes and they, it only open from like six to eight for fifties. So I go like first thing in the morning early and then, so it’s kind of feels like a full day off. ’cause I’m done by 8:00 AM <laugh>. So I’m just like, eh, get to kick it for us today. So I kind of schedule all my other stuff during Thursdays calls or errands or things I have to do. So doing laundry, doing like normal life stuff. ’cause I put it off for the rest of the week and pile it up for Thursdays.

Taylor Self (01:50):

What’s the, what’s the mail equivalent for 40 pound dumbbells? Like if females have 40 pound dumbbells males, sixties or 60 fives

Patrick Vellner (01:58):

Pro. Hmm. I mean, I’d probably go 60 fives.

Taylor Self (02:05):

So we, we did this workout this morning. It was a 15 Devil’s press, 300 meter swim, 30 dumbbell thrusters, 330 dumbbell thrusters, 315 devil’s press. And it looked pretty, pretty panicky after the sets of 30. Getting a

Patrick Vellner (02:20):

Water so’s four four swims.

Taylor Self (02:22):

Uh, three swims. So devil’s

Patrick Vellner (02:24):

Press meters.

Taylor Self (02:25):

Yeah, devil’s

Patrick Vellner (02:26):

Press. Okay. So you start and finish on the dumbbells. Yeah.

Taylor Self (02:28):

Devil’s press. Yeah. Pretty nasty. And

Patrick Vellner (02:29):

Sorry, how many devil’s pressed?

Taylor Self (02:31):


Patrick Vellner (02:33):

It’s the Devil’s Press are irrelevant. It’s the thrusters.

Taylor Self (02:35):

Yeah, thrusters. Were pretty, were were really bad. And the one, uh, we went to this open water place that I used like a range finder a long time ago. And I thought it was gonna be a hundred out and back. And I got there, I was like, oh,

Patrick Vellner (02:45):

Oh. It was more,

Taylor Self (02:47):


Patrick Vellner (02:47):

When it’s like at, at the lake when I with open water too. You kind of eyeball and you’re like, I don’t know. And then I like my watch, I’m not sure how it is for, it has an open water setting, but I don’t know how accurate it is. And sometimes I just go out and you, you do the first swim and the I come out and I check my watch and I’m like, ah,

Taylor Self (03:05):

<laugh>. Like,

Patrick Vellner (03:07):

It might, usually I try to go more on time because of that. I’m like, you know, is it if I’m trying to swim, you know, 400 meters, is it like, are we looking at eight minutes or did I just do 10 minutes swim? And now we’re like, I don’t really know how far I swam. But yeah, the thrusters, I did a workout not that long ago with, uh, very similar, except that when devil press, thruster pushed press and it was only three, it was four swims and three dumbbell. Yeah. Um, and it was lighter dumbbells, but it was, uh, yeah, I know definitely the swim after the thrusters was the one where I was like, ha. Thought was getting No, I

Taylor Self (03:39):

Was paddle boarding like next to her. She was getting the water. She’s like,

Taylor Self (03:42):


Patrick Vellner (03:43):

Yeah, you’re just hurrying. And then also like your triceps and your arms just like, yeah. Devil’s press is like, it’s a bit smoother. It’s a bit slower. Like it just doesn’t mm-hmm. <affirmative> it’s annoying and it takes time, but it’s not, it doesn’t quite, it doesn’t treat you the same as the thrusters do. And that was, I felt the same, the push press at the end, you’re just like rattling them off, like breathing super fast. <laugh>, you get in the water, you’re like, okay. Takes you like a good couple of minutes swimming to get back to normal.

JR Howell (04:10):

Yeah. I mean, I know, I wonder, you, you guys probably do too. It’s been not counting 2020 because the field was so small. It’s been since the beach, right? It’s been since the swim kettlebell, thruster, burpee that there’s been like a mixed modal swim workout at the games. Right. I don’t count last year’s ’cause it’s just mono structural for both. So I, I wonder how many, it seems like a lot of athletes are expecting something, like you’re talking about, and like Taylor’s talking about that if there is a swim that it’s like some CrossFit

Patrick Vellner (04:40):

Like I think everybody’s been wanting it and expecting it for a long time and, but I, I think that part of the problem is it’s a bit of a logistical concern and there’s also some question as to, you know, what can you safely do when you’re all wet and things like that. And there’s, there’s some, there, there are some, some concerns around that. Like, are you gonna put a heavy barbell overhead? Like, probably not. Right? Um, I think if, if I went there and they told me that that’s what we’re gonna do, I might put my hand up and be like, ah, that’s a bad idea. <laugh>. But, you know, that’s why I think even that one in, uh, 2020 when they’d used the slam ball say even instead of using a heavy dumbbell, which is effectively what it was ’cause it wasn’t a slam ball.


Like a slam ball is not a, a movement you can do. ’cause you’re just gonna pick it up and drop it. Like the harder you slam it, you’re burning energy for no reason. Right. It’s not a slam ball. It was like a ground to overhead with a D ball. Right. But the D ball is a little safer implement overhead than, than a handle. I think that’s just got metal on it and stuff. So I think that that was a really cool event and we all wish we could have done that one. ’cause it’s probably the coolest swim workout we’ve seen since the beach. But, uh, I think, yeah, we’ve been kind of wanting it, but there’s like, you know, if we’re at the pool again, I think that they’re worried about wrecking the tile too and things like that. Right. And like, what, what can you do?


Um, but it would be nice to see, I think it’s a fun, if nothing else, it’s a fun way to train it. Like, I have a lot more fun doing swim workouts that have those aspects to it rather than just like, you know, do a little beach entry. And then I swim for a bit and then I get out and I run and then I swim, and then I run, and then I get on the paddle board, and then I swim again. And like, I did a, yesterday, two days ago, Tuesday, I did a like swim paddle workout where it was like 400 meters you’d swim, then you’d paddle the same distance and then every round you’d do a different position on the paddle. So like, starting with prone, then kneeling, then standing and just like, yeah, it’s like, it was fine. It was like fun, I guess.


But it, it gets a little bit tedious doing that. Those how many different ways can you do a, a run paddle or a run swim? Right. And it’s, I think that as, as the first workout. Yeah. Yeah. We hopefully we’ll get a little bit more freedom for that. I don’t know why, you know, in the past when we were at the lake, why we couldn’t have just rolled out mats in the parking lot and like thrown some things down. Uh, and you could easily do like dumbbell squats or something like that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Like, there may be, even if there’s question about safety for certain things overhead, there’s a lot you can do with hook going overhead. Like you do a bunch of dumbbell cleans or do a bunch of whatever. Like, there’s tons of stuff you can

Taylor Self (07:13):

Do. So be cool. Do you think, do you think you’re gonna see single modality, uh, to start the weekend? Do you, do you anticipate single modality to start the weekend prior to the cuts? Do you want it? I

Patrick Vellner (07:25):

I think that there’s, I think, I don’t think we’re gonna see. Hmm. So you mean single modality, like a full score for just one thing

Taylor Self (07:32):

Ish? Yeah, I, yeah, to, to a degree. I’m thinking like single modality as just one thing, but also including like a CrossFit total or a run swim rum where there’s different movements, but it’s all mono structural based or all weight lifting based.

Patrick Vellner (07:48):

Right. So like last year, would you call the shuttle the overhead a a uh, single modality?

Taylor Self (07:54):

No, no, no. I, I, I think

Patrick Vellner (07:55):

That, see I would, by that criteria, I would, it was a hundred points for running. It was a hundred points for shoulder overhead. Oh,

Taylor Self (08:00):

Okay. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Patrick Vellner (08:03):

Um, then yes, but including that, you know, so that’s, that’s the question is like, does that count? That was technically two events, but yeah, you know, I think that’s, it’s still a fairly CrossFit and like, interval style. Like there was some nuance to it. It wasn’t as simple as what you like row one K or something like that, right? Mm-hmm. Um, so I think maybe we’ll see some stuff like that, you know, the bike to work. Like, some people could look at that and be like, that was pretty mono structural, but anybody who did it will tell you that the gymnastics was a lot more valuable than you might’ve thought going in. Uh, and like that second round when you started doing chest to bars, it was like you came off and if you were super lactic in your arms, it took a while to feel comfortable on the bike again. And like, people who were smoother on the chest of bars didn’t fight that on the last round of biking and maybe got right into their speed after a lap or two. So I think there’s like, we’ll see, I, i, looking at what Bosman did last year, it would kind of surprise me to see very single modality stuff. Um, I think he likes to have complexity, uh, sometimes in my opinion unnecessarily so. But, uh, that’s one man’s opinion.

JR Howell (09:11):

Yeah, I mean, it, it’s, you know, everyone wants to talk about the cuts and the implications for the athletes themselves. I, we all think about it more from a programming standpoint, right? It’s not only important for Thursday to Friday to stand alone as their own CrossFit games, but in my opinion, it really breaks it up into three different competitions. So you have Thursday and Friday, then you cut, then you cut. So Thursday and Friday you need to be well-rounded. You need to make sure you know who’s stronger, at least maybe who’s not weak that you know, who has good endurance, who has good skills, whatever. But then to me, based on the order of the workouts, if you have, uh, let’s just say Saturday’s really gymnastics heavy and then Sunday’s just gonna be heavy, like back nine type heavy type workouts, well, if you’re just one of those dudes that didn’t get to do the Sunday workouts, you’re gonna get cut unnecessarily. So it’s almost like Saturday has to be really, really, really well done because you’re about to cut 10 really good people just to have them do maybe three workouts at the end of the weekend.

Patrick Vellner (10:12):

Hmm. Yeah. I think this is you and you can, sorry, go ahead Taylor.

Taylor Self (10:16):

I was just gonna ask, I was, you, do you think 20 to 30 is really, really good and relevant by Saturday? I guess you Pat Jr. Either of you.

Patrick Vellner (10:27):

So I think jr’s point is why cuts shouldn’t e exist at the games. Um, I, I don’t, I think that there’s too many, it takes away too many aspects of competition for what it adds. Um, to me it doesn’t add much. Uh, I know that there’s an argument you made about, oh, it makes it a little more exciting. People’s backs are against the wall. Like people are competing like their backs against the wall regardless. Like, there’s money on the line, there’s things on the line. Like if you’re an athlete who’s on the games floor, you’re trying your best or you’re like, and yeah, there’s some, there’s maybe like a little, I don’t know, I don’t even wanna say it’s a little bit of extra fire. ’cause like, frankly, like you’re gonna do whatever you can. Uh, if not, if anything else, it might force mistakes. Uh, but the reality is like, so last year’s events, your, your examples a reasonably good one about timing of events. That makes a huge, huge difference. So last year, what were Laura Hovas Sunday finishes

Taylor Self (11:25):

Back nine, I would imagine was back nine. I would imagine I don’t

Patrick Vellner (11:28):

<crosstalk>. She won the back nine, she won alpaca and I think she took like a third maybe on that third

JR Howell (11:33):

On Jackie

Patrick Vellner (11:33):

Promo on the Jackie Pro. So you’re, you’re talking like if that’s someone who is a stronger athlete and, and that sort of thing hasn’t been tested as much, or the order of events just happens to fall a certain way where their strength is there. If that athlete is in, you know, 18th place or you know, let’s say they’re in 21st place, they get cut right before that happens, those finishes would put them up to like 11th, maybe even in the top 10. Yeah. That is massively significant. Not just in terms of placing, but like, like that fucking pays you Yeah. Money a ton. So like that, that’s where it’s just like, I don’t, I have a hard time justifying it. If the order of events plays any impact on the leaderboard, that’s, uh, you know, that’s not great from a fairness perspective. Um, we’re asking people to take a different test.


Some people are taking a full test, some not so much. But you’re, you’re then you’re grading them on the same scale. So that, looking at the, the cutting system, what it does is it basically kind of invalidates anybody from 20th place, 21st place onward. And, and we get the sense that like, all that matters is finding like the top, top people in the right order. We don’t really care about the order of everybody else. Like as long as maybe the top three are in, are in the appropriate order, everybody else is just sort of, nah, whatever, which just shouldn’t be the case. Like, opportunities don’t fall that way. A top 10 finish is massively significant. If you’re a rookie and you even have a top 20 finish, that’s super significant. Like, so I don’t love it. The changing scoring tables make a big difference. The order of events make a big difference.


Um, it’s just super challenging. And I think it also handcuffs the programming a bit. So now all of a sudden I can’t, I can’t test certain things almost at all because I can’t test them in the first part of the competition because it’ll skew the cut too significantly. I can’t maybe do certain single modality tests or very, very specific tests that I want to do. And you’ll be heavily criticized if some of that stuff comes up too early and then post cuts, suddenly there’s these specialist events and it mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then, but the, the specialist has been cut. And I think there’s just, it, it doesn’t, it doesn’t add enough for me. And so, I don’t know, I, I’m like always defensive of the athlete perspective as well. So I think it’s like, you know, the guys in, in 20th to 30th to 40th place, they still matter.


And those are some, oftentimes what’s happening is we’re cutting the athletes from some of the, the geographical regions that we’re trying to grow the sport in. So like, we’re just sort of like, we’re on one hand we’re saying like, yeah, we wanna grow these communities in Africa and in Asia and whatever, and then we’re just chopping ’em off the knees immediately <laugh>. And it’s just like, okay, you know, you, you say one thing into another, it’s just, it’s tough. Uh, so I don’t know. I mean, I think it, it makes, it makes it a tightrope walk for programming. Uh, and I think that if you just knew everyone was gonna take every test, you’d be able to program a little more freely. Um, but now you can’t quite as much.

JR Howell (14:35):

Yeah. ’cause I mean, as close as it was in, in 2019 toward the end, and as much as is we could dive into the placement of those events and the events that were on Saturday night and on Sunday that a lot of you guys didn’t get to do and didn’t get to maybe punish other athletes in top 10 for poor finishes. I always think about that year and think about something like that split triplet, and I think about like you and Brent mm-hmm. <affirmative> on the pegboard dumbbell workout. And thinking to myself like, I wonder what would’ve happened on that workout. Would Noah and Matt have still kind of finished where they were and like B k G, would they still be pulling everyone along? Or like, could you or Bryn have won that? Could you have taken points away from either of them? Could you have made the, could you have made the standard really, really interesting. But we’ll never know those things because I think that year above all years, the order of the workouts and when they did the cuts just played a significant role to the, to the top 10.

Taylor Self (15:34):

I let,

Patrick Vellner (15:35):

I let Dave Yeah. And I also think going, going to 10 instead of 20 is still is is extra significant huge in that respect. Correct.

Taylor Self (15:40):

Yeah. I watched Dave’s like when they announced it, I initially was what all my, all my thinking was in line with what you were initially saying, pat. And then I watched Dave’s weekend review and I let his explanation kind of like swoon me towards, uh, I guess it’s okay, but I I hearing you say it again and hearing your perspective, I, I, I agree. I don’t think the benefits, like the viewership benefits, the, and he used the argument of, oh, now we can take the handcuffs, cuffs off with programming. But your perspective

Patrick Vellner (16:14):

Yeah. You shouldn’t, you have

Taylor Self (16:15):

Handcuffs. Yeah. You shouldn’t, you, you have handcuffs in the early, early part of the event as well. And then,

Patrick Vellner (16:21):

So I think one of Dave’s comments that he tends to present in this is that, well, when we have a smaller field, it allows us to do more interesting things with the programming. Yeah. And I can understand that. But we haven’t seen it Every time he says that, we don’t see it. Even in 2019 when we had 10 people perfect opportunity to do some really cool stuff. And they did what toes to ring and assault bike, <laugh>, burpees to ring and, and yeah. By overhead squats, um, you know, they swam a kilometer, paddle a kilometer. All things we could have easily done with, with larger fields’, a big field, especially this one swim. There wasn’t anything in there that wasn’t doable with a larger field. I think what it does do is it gives their team a, a bit of a break. Yeah. Um, which, you know, I can understand that. But the, there’s, you know, it just becomes a bit of a priority shift of like, I don’t think it improves the competition. Yeah. Um, so I, I will say that fairly adamantly, and I’ll say it until the day I die, I don’t think it adds or improves adds to anything or improves the competition. But are there other considerations? Surely there are, and there’s ones that I, you know, we’re less aware of, but that’s kind of my perspective on

Taylor Self (17:33):

It. He mentions, he mentions bottom athletes towards the end of the weekend getting drug along. And I wonder, I mean, you’ve been at the top of the sport almost, you know, essentially since your first year towards the top of the field. Do you, do you ever see that? Or do you ever, I mean you’re, I feel like you’re so in competition it’s hard for you to see potentially, I don’t know. But do you think some of those bottom athletes at the end of the weekend, or even at the start, there’s that category of athlete that’s like, I made the game. That was the huge hurdle. That was the big climb. Now what I kind of just show up and participate. Do you think that exists? ’cause I, in his argument, he, he almost hints to that or alludes to that.

Patrick Vellner (18:10):

I think it does. And I think that there’s always even good great athletes who are having a really bad weekend. You watch people who don’t look like themselves. Right? Yeah. And I’ve been in positions where, you know, you’re on a podium hunt on the last day and certain workouts come up and then you look around and be like, who’s gonna be competitive in this workout? This guy, this guy. They normally would, but they’re out. Like you can tell like the light’s just out of their eyes. Like they’re just not gonna be there. And I think that’s often why on the last day of competition, you see very similar names trading positions in the top five. Like those are the people who have that little bit of extra, and that’s just like, you’ve got that extra bit of adrenaline or whatever. ’cause it feels closer. Um, but I don’t, I still like, it’s just that justification get them off the floor.


Yeah. Like I’m, I am, I just don’t know if it is. And I think that, again, if you’re trying to develop athletes and create athletes who will then be in that position in a year or two, um, to keep not letting them even compete a full weekend, uh, it just seems weird. And not to mention, like, I just, the idea to me that suddenly at the games, it’s super important that we cut athletes. Um, it is just weird to me. Like we don’t do it at any other stage of the competition. Every filter we’ve gone through, you don’t, and like you, you do after, yeah, after the competition, we filter down, but never in the middle of a competition are we cutting athletes. So it just suddenly it becomes like it’s a super duper important thing that we do. It just feels weird. Um, and I don’t, I don’t know if it, again, if we’re trying to Yeah, and that’s the thing.


There are, there are other considerations, right? And I think that there’re like, ah, you know, we, our, our staff are getting tired and like judges are gonna make more mistakes if we’ve gotta run double the heats and this and that and like may Yeah. Maybe. Um, but I just think from a purely like develop sport development and, and improving the sport and competition perspective, I just, I don’t think that there’s much of an argument for, I think it’s just, you know, those guys, some guys start in 30th place and then in like two years they develop three years, they develop, they grow and then they’re top 10 athletes. But you know, if you’re never, if you don’t feel the effect of a full games weekend, you’re never allowed to continue. They can be demoralizing and you can just chop people out. Uh, and then, you know, you’re gonna end up with the same people rolling around in the top 10 until they retire. And then it’s just like, it’s a weird, you don’t, you don’t get the same storylines of people developing and contending. And I don’t know, I just, I think that there are, I could name many reasons why I don’t like them and I can’t name many reasons why I think that they’re beneficial. So

Taylor Self (20:37):

Do you think, do you think cuts specifically hinder the athletes that are 20 through 40 in terms of like partnerships, sponsorships, potential in the, in the industry to support themselves?

Patrick Vellner (20:49):

Um, yes. Like I think that any opportunity you have to spend more time on a competition floor, how many times a year do we compete generally? Yeah. Five. If you’re ambitious. Like, so visibility for sponsors is a big thing. Uh, you know, that’s, frankly, there’s not enough prize money or money in the sport right now. So that’s how most athletes generate the living. Yeah. Um, so, you know, if you can say, yeah, well I improved from 30th to 20th, that can entice more sponsors. You can and, and just more time on the competition floor. I think it just, it, it benefits that stuff. It supports partnerships more. And again, I think I saw, I think Dave made a, a comment about being able to support their partners better by doing cuts. And I don’t really know, I don’t remember what he was kind of, how he was making that work, but yeah,

Taylor Self (21:34):

I don’t remember that part of the argument. I

Speaker 2 (21:35):

Think he was saying that it’s like they give more time for people to be out in Fender Village if there’s less

Patrick Vellner (21:41):

There Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:41):

Are competing.

Patrick Vellner (21:43):

Sure. Okay. Yeah. That’s not a very strong

Taylor Self (21:45):

Argument right away when you say it <laugh>.

Patrick Vellner (21:47):

Yeah. I, I don’t know. And there’s like, you know, the people have said, yeah, well, the first two heats, no one’s watching anyways. Everybody gets up and goes pee and gets food. And again, I, I like from the athlete shoes on the floor perspective, I, I think if you pulled those athletes and said, Hey look, you finished in 33rd place, you got cut. Or like, you’re in a position, where would you rather that we continue this competition, you get to keep going on the coliseum floor and competing in front of a very sparse crowd? Or would you rather just packing it? Oh yeah. The athletes are gonna sit, everybody’s gonna want to compete. Right? Like, ah, no, I could do better. I want another chance to you. Whatever. Like, like people don’t get, you don’t fall over backwards and wind up on the games floor.


Yeah. Like those people have worked for a long time to get there. Um, and you know, you earn your, you earn your right to compete at the quarterfinals. You compete the quarterfinals, you earn your right to compete at the semifinals. You finish the semifinals, you earn your right to compete at the games, and then we just fucking get rid of you as soon as it’s a little bit inconvenient. Like I, it just feels strange to me. And I think that the que the, again, the, there are arguments for in a against, to me the arguments for cuts are, are soft. Uh, and the arguments the against, I think just hold more water in terms of improving the competition and improving the, and and pushing the sport forward. But like I said, one man’s opinion.

Taylor Self (23:02):

I think, I think that’s a good segue into the specific topic we are talking about for today’s show. And I think, you know what I wanted to call the show <laugh>. Yeah. Uh, do you hope, in terms of programming prior to the first cut, do you think workouts like that are important, as important as maybe single modality specialist tests? Do you want to see a lot of balance between quote unquote small man and big man workouts? Um, what does that look like for you?

Patrick Vellner (23:30):

Uh, I think it’s important and I think that, you know, as much as we often try to ignore it, those are realities. Like there just are workouts where it’s significantly more beneficial to be smaller or lighter or, you know, different body types. And that’s why at the games, a lot of the athletes are a very similar body type because it’s filtered to people that are gonna be successful in the big guy stuff. And then, and also the smaller guy stuff, right? So we have a lot, we have a few outliers, which makes it really fun. And that’s part of what makes the sport fun to watch, is you get to watch some of these outliers just absolutely smash the stuff when it comes across the plate. So I think that, I hope they’ll do a decent job of balancing it. A lot of workouts have a pretty decent balance anyway. It’ll tend to skew one way or the other. But even if you look at semi-finals, um, you know, workouts like, uh, the, the R one, it was more beneficial to be a little bit smaller. Yeah. Uh, based on how the finishes stacked up at the end. If you look at the top, you know, five scores worldwide in that, there’s just no denying it. Yeah. Um, the burpee box jump over wasn’t a big enough hindrance for the small guys to overcome the big advantage they had on the rings and the pistols. And

Taylor Self (24:43):


Patrick Vellner (24:43):

Pistols Yeah. Uh, in, in that, in that timeframe. So, you know, it is the way it is. Like it was still, you gotta be fit to do it. Like there’s no, and same thing with Linda, like guys that have small range of motion. Yeah, there’s a lot of weight, but if you have small range of motion and you can pump those things out across that many rounds, it makes a huge difference, especially on the dumbbells. Yeah. Um, but you know, then you put those workouts, like the long run rope pull, whatever, like mass moves mass. And on those machines especially, it’s the same thing. Like everybody, same, same argument, reverse direction, the top five scores worldwide, like the average weight’s like two 40 pounds or something like that. Right. Like people are just big and there was no denying it, but across those seven scores it was okay.


Right. I think we probably skewed a little large at semis this year ’cause of how many machines were involved Yeah. And heavy stuff. But, um, you know, the games is a little bit, as long as they balance on the first two days with a fair amount of, uh, I don’t know how. Last year I think was kind of the first time that we, uh, 2021 was the first time we did Coliseum before the weekend. But indoor events tend to, to skew small and outdoor events tend to skew large at the games. I would say I,

Taylor Self (25:54):

I felt like for a while it, it seemed like the games were trending towards maybe a sm a bit of a smaller demographic. And then you look at this year at semi-finals, I mean, you’re one of the bigger people in the field. I feel like it’s interesting having met you in competition once, like we’re relatively the same height and I do not consider myself a big person at all, but yeah.

Patrick Vellner (26:13):

Right. Yeah. I was gonna say, and I think people think I’m bigger than I am.

Taylor Self (26:16):

No, you look across the field and you’re like, where’d everybody go? Oh, <laugh>. And I’m five to 10, like five nine without shoes. Uh, but then you see guys like this year, like yellow, yellow hoste. Yeah. Uh, in Europe, huge guy. I mean, obviously you, Brent, Jason. Is it, do you feel like it’s trending in one direction or another, or it’s relatively balanced right now in terms of athletes in the field? I, I think

Patrick Vellner (26:38):

It, it, you know, it waxes and wanes a little bit. Like years ago, 2012 ish, it was trending large. Yeah. Uh, weights were getting really heavy, much heavier than they were to start. And then we kind of reversed direction I around 20 16, 17, maybe after 17, probably where things got a little bit less heavy and a little bit more high volume. Um, and a lot of more, a lot more high skill gymnastics. Yeah. And then now it’s, you know, even then, I think 2017 was probably 20 16, 17, we were starting to see a lot more strongman influence at the games. So as that happened, big bodies make a difference. And some of the athleticism events on the field, big bodies matter. So the more outdoor events there were, there was starting to be a little more skew, but you gotta get to the games. Right. So that’s why at the games, it’s still gonna be a certain body type that’s prevalent because a lot of the, the arena style workouts that we’re doing at regionals, they don’t have those elements a lot of the time.


So then if you can get through that threshold, a guy like, you know, like Brent can go to the games and be super successful and stuff that’s never tested earlier in the season and it’s a cool little card to have in your back pocket. But some of those bigger bodies are really good at those athleticism events. Like, you know, and strong man stuff moving implements, point to point. Um, those things matter a lot. So I think this year was the first time we’ve seen Yeah. Last year’s weird just because everybody did different stuff. Right. So hard to, to really compare, um, in the qualification stage. But this year was the first time I think at the qualification stage we had very games esque elements added in. There were more been in the past. Yeah. The, the heavy sled drag, even the ruck bag, stuff like that, that’s like, those are things that we’ve in the past seen more at the games.


Um, and it’s trickled down now to the semis. So I think we’re starting to get that body type skew back up where the people who are successful at those things are now just gonna be the ones that are going to the games instead of having to find a way to get to the games in order to find success with those elements later. Um, so it’s probably, it’s coming up a little bit. I saw some stats about what the heights and weights were recently. Uh, somebody like Barbell Spin or somebody posted it and it’s such a lie. There’s like zero chance. It was saying there was like,

JR Howell (29:12):

Like when you guys checked in, why don’t they just take weights? Just let that be part of they should your checkin that way we can, we can speak

Patrick Vellner (29:17):

To it and then you know what,

JR Howell (29:19):

And then they should, they should, they should

Patrick Vellner (29:21):

Compare it against what you self-reported.

JR Howell (29:24):

Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. Like I think that’s, I mean, it’s really cool to be able to say something like, no, Cody Anderson is pound for pound the strongest CrossFit athlete if we base it on the squat clean pyramid workout. Right. Whatever. Like, it’s just cool to know those things. Hey, um, you know, Jason Hopper’s got a 30 pound advantage on on Will Morad and they finished one two in Echo Press. What does that say about the workout? Well, maybe it’s not a small man’s workout. Maybe it’s just a good CrossFit workout. Like those are stories that analysts can use to bolster arguments or can like make people like idiots when before the.

The above transcript is generated using AI technology and therefore may contain errors.

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