#960 – John Hackleman | The Pit Boss

Sevan Matossian (00:00):

Asked before. Just kidding. Just kidding. <laugh>, y’all warmed up. Holy cow, buddy. You’ve done a lot of podcasts. We’re live. We’re live.

John Hackleman (00:13):

Hey, are we live right now? We

Sevan Matossian (00:14):


John Hackleman (00:16):

Whew. I get this. Oh, man. Nervous. Okay.

Sevan Matossian (00:19):

I’m glad you got the memo about the glasses. The black glasses.

John Hackleman (00:22):

Thanks. Where’s, uh, there’s never leave home without ’em,

Sevan Matossian (00:27):

Ladies and gentlemen. Uh, you were staring at, um, John Hackleman. Uh, I met John Hackleman. I don’t know, uh, I don’t even know if we met, but the first time I saw him was either 2006 or 2007 at a CrossFit seminar. Maybe it was 2008, I don’t know. But there was, uh, Greg Glassman would invite people, um, who were out of the space of CrossFit to teach a specialty, kind of like one or two hour, like, um, seminars early in the morning, like at seven in the morning on a Sunday or Saturday, I can’t remember. And one time this dude showed up with some young Brazilian kid named, uh, Glover Ra.

John Hackleman (01:07):


Sevan Matossian (01:08):

And Gl and Glover pulled the rower harder than I’ve ever seen any human being pulled the rower. And, uh, after a while, I found out that, uh, John Hackleman was the, uh, the famous coach of, uh, Chuck Liddell, uh, Glover Tera and, and, and many, many others. Uh, court McGee. Cort McGee too, right?

John Hackleman (01:29):


Sevan Matossian (01:30):

Uh, go on. Are we gonna throw someone out there? Yeah. Uh,

John Hackleman (01:35):

Ramsey Nija. I started with Tim, Tim Kennedy, star with me, uh, uh, Scott Adams. There’s been a few, there’s been a few along the way. Even von Flu with the Von Flu choke. But yeah, there’s been some fighters, but I, yeah, what I was doing was the combative thing. You know, remember he, we had combative and Glover also did, which they didn’t think he could do. They challenged him to do a a a a what? He overhead squat. And they didn’t Against

Sevan Matossian (02:07):

Nicole. Against Nicole,

John Hackleman (02:09):

Yeah. And he, he, he did it. And then they said, well, he could never do a muscle up. And he did it first try.

Sevan Matossian (02:17):

Or maybe Glover was a freak, right? I mean, he is a freak. Yeah,

John Hackleman (02:20):

He is. He is. He’s a he is, he was the top him and Court McGee then when I got court, court was equally a freak. I mean, freak, he doesn’t look all cut up, but he’s doing back Co cor McGee, back flips. He’s, he’s pulling numbers like real, like Cro uh, real, um, concept two guys, rowers numbers like that. Not just the fighter. I mean, he took it to the next level. He runs, he runs a crazy mile and he never gets tired. Like, that’s two court. And, and Glover never get tired.

Sevan Matossian (02:56):

Um, let’s not pass judgment on our guest, please. Uh, Corbin, that is, uh, uh, not, not what we do here. Uh, he said, this dude rides a Harley for sure. Let’s, let’s make this a safe space for, uh, John Hackleman and not put him into it. That

John Hackleman (03:07):

Hurts me. Why would you even say that? <laugh>. That’s rude. Hello?

Sevan Matossian (03:12):

Uh, and what was crazier? So, so John comes, I meet him, then he goes away to wherever he goes. San Luis Obispo, where he trains all of these monsters. And at the time, I wasn’t a big U F C fan like I am now. And, um, then, uh, we go visit him, um, at his training facility. And I think I went with Allison, n y c. Do you remember her? The girl with the giant boobs?

John Hackleman (03:33):


Sevan Matossian (03:34):

Okay. Good answer. Sorry, I forgot

John Hackleman (03:36):


Sevan Matossian (03:36):

And, and Glover, um, did Grace, which was 135 pounds from ground to overhead. And I think he maybe did it in the, um, uh, you, uh, what’s that called? When like, you walk into a dentist’s office or something in that room that you walk into, like where you wait and sit? What’s that called? Lobby

John Hackleman (03:54):


Sevan Matossian (03:55):

Room. Uh, thank you. Yeah. Waiting room Lobby. Thank you. Caleb. You had like a lobby there at, at CrossFit, right? Or like a, uh, like a front desk.

John Hackleman (04:02):


Sevan Matossian (04:03):

And, and you brought out a bar. It didn’t even spin. It wasn’t even a CrossFit bar and it had metal weights on it. Yeah. Like the little ones. And you did 135 pound grace for time. Do you remember that?

John Hackleman (04:13):

No. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That the, the fall prison weights. Yeah.

Sevan Matossian (04:18):

Yes. And it was fucking crazy. And I filmed it, and I’m pretty sure we

John Hackleman (04:21):

Put it on and it didn’t bounce. There was no rubber on it. And it was a, it was a hard floor. It wasn’t a, it wasn’t a rubber floor. So, I mean, so he couldn’t, he had no bounce at

Sevan Matossian (04:32):

All. And then there was another time I met you where we then came to your house, to the actual training facility where you had a ring. You had some, like what? Say it again. Cage. Cage, yeah. Yeah. You had the cage and you had, thank you for the clarification. Words are important these days. This is two men talking, and we weren’t talking about a ring. We’re talking about a cage. Words are very important.

John Hackleman (04:54):


Sevan Matossian (04:54):

Yeah. And then you had the, like, the death shed up top, and then you had some wheelbarrows, and you had the, the tires and Dave Castro and, uh, bill Grundler and Dave Lipson and James Hobart and Rob,

John Hackleman (05:09):

Uh, the buff guy. The buff guy, the, the power lifter,

Sevan Matossian (05:13):

Rob Orlando, they all got in the ring with your guys, including, um, including your son.

John Hackleman (05:18):


Sevan Matossian (05:21):

And Dave. And, uh, four of the guys kind of just pussy footed around. But Dave and, um, Grundler actually fought with your guys and got tuned up a little bit. They bloodied Greer’s face up a little bit.

John Hackleman (05:31):

I I am not gonna, I won’t admit or or deny that, but there might’ve been, there might’ve been some, uh, some unnecessary violence, but Grundler took it like a champ, like he always does.

Sevan Matossian (05:46):

Yeah. With that giant fucking nose of his guy. He got tuned up.

John Hackleman (05:50):

That was, that was that those noses never last very long in the, ’cause I had one just like his, my nose was like, ERs.

Sevan Matossian (05:59):

Hey, is that really true? So, um, uh, is that really true? You see the guys with the giant, like, am I, am I fucked If I go into fighting? Is you see guys with giant noses, VUL, Kovski has a fucking Chanas.

John Hackleman (06:11):

You might, I Yeah. I’ve never really noticed. But they see, I, I started most of my career boxing. So in boxing, you get hit a lot more than you do in m m A, you know, m m a, it, it, it, there’s so much more to m m A, there’s so many more facets and more, you know, there’s more skills to have in wrestling and, and grappling is a huge one. So you don’t just stand next to, in front of each other and punch each other in the face over and over. So, um, yeah, maybe their noses do last a little longer. Hey,

Sevan Matossian (06:48):

Is that you with hair down there? <laugh>?

John Hackleman (06:50):

Yeah. No,

Sevan Matossian (06:51):


John Hackleman (06:52):

I was like 16, 17 maybe,

Sevan Matossian (06:56):

But, but what I’m saying is, is if you have a big nose, does that mean it’s gonna get broken faster? Is that, how is it, is it just that? I mean, that makes, it’s logical, but is that just how it is? Period.

John Hackleman (07:05):

Period? Yeah. It will. It will.

Sevan Matossian (07:08):

Okay, here we go. Here we go. He’s gonna come to your house and kick your ass. Uh, Daniel Garrity, how did Seon land? John Malkovich on the podcast? You son of a bitch.

John Hackleman (07:17):

Wow. Wow.

Sevan Matossian (07:18):

It’s a fucking tough <laugh>

John Hackleman (07:21):

<laugh>. Where? Where’s Greg Glassman? I thought, uh, I thought he was gonna come up and kick our ass. He’s, he actually said that is what,

Sevan Matossian (07:33):

That’s, uh, that’s, uh, <laugh>, that’s John. If he didn’t get into a fight, and if he didn’t get into martial arts,

John Hackleman (07:40):

Wow. <laugh> that looks,

Sevan Matossian (07:42):

Hey, Caleb’s your son down there, Caleb’s your son, your long lost son, uh, Caleb, we’re gonna spring that on him at the end of the show. The, the woman that, uh, daddy, the woman, he had a father a baby with that he doesn’t know <laugh>.

John Hackleman (07:54):

Wow. Uh, who, I’m not gonna guess who that’s with because it’ll get me in trouble. But anyway, anyway, that’s, yeah. So that’s what we do. Yeah. CrossFit, CrossFit. I got in trouble for CrossFit name once you know that

Sevan Matossian (08:11):

Like, uh, you used it somewhere and like, uh, the lawyers came after you.

John Hackleman (08:14):

I used it everywhere. I still do. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s all over our, we teach it. We have a CrossFit class. And, uh, and they, some lawyer called me once and, and said something about I can’t use, I got bullshit. I’ve been using it since like 2003 or oh four. And the person that came up with it, uh, was Greg Glassman. He said, well, what you do is, you know, a little more martial arts. It’s not quite as much, you know, of the workout part. So, you know, why don’t we just take what you do, call it CrossFit, you know, that way we’re, we’re CrossFit. And he actually, I think he designed the first t-shirts we had that were CrossFit t-shirts. So I was like, the owner did it anyway. The lawyer called me back in a couple days. He goes, yeah, I talked it over. Just, you know, other people can’t use it, but you, you’re allowed to use it.

Sevan Matossian (09:03):

So I think I was with Greg when the lawyers called him and he basically said, are you outta your fucking mind? Do you know the fucking brand of value it gets being, uh, we get being affiliated with fucking John Hackleman. He’s like, stop it. Leave him alone.

John Hackleman (09:17):

Yeah. So they did. They did. And I, I still use it, but what happens was, like, if my affiliates wanna wanna label it and, and use it, I tell them they can. I’m the only one that can, so I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna take advantage. But

Sevan Matossian (09:33):

Anyway, every time, John, every time John picks his hand, Upson, flinches, he, they’re, they’re faints. They’re faints. Okay. Um, uh, be, before we talk about how you met Greg, and I got a whole shit ton of questions for you. Why, why the left hook, um, uh, why you throw in the towel, um, why, uh, fighters, uh, shouldn’t fight, why I got all these lies. I wanna go back to baby, uh, um, John Hackleman, uh, stay at home mom. Uh, dad was an, uh, an intellectual, a writer. And, uh, you’re living in Hawaii and, uh, can we go back there? Um, how, how did your mom and dad meet?

John Hackleman (10:10):

Mom and dad met in New York, and dad was, uh, I think he just got outta the army. He j my dad got outta the Army, world War ii, then he went to West Point, and then he got outta West Point, and then he wanted to be a journalist. So he went to Columbia and got his master’s, came back, he started working for the Associated Press. My mom’s a

Sevan Matossian (10:31):

Was he a smarty pants? John? You remember your dad being a smart guy? Inquisitive.

John Hackleman (10:35):

He’s a very smart guy. He used to, I’d send him a loving letter from like, when I was in basic training, how much I missed him, and he would like correct it and send, you know, send it back. Um, I’m, I’m, I’m exaggerating. But he, he was that kind of guy that was always like, he was a stickler and he was very, uh, methodical and smart. And he was the sports editor of our local paper. Um, he got a job in Hawaii when I was five, six, maybe. And, um, so he, he moved to Hawaii with the whole family and we, he started working for the newspaper there as a sports editor.

Sevan Matossian (11:12):

From where, where did you guys move? From?

John Hackleman (11:14):

New York.

Sevan Matossian (11:15):


John Hackleman (11:15):

Yeah. And then my mom was a stay at home mom. And, uh, Hawaii was a tough place to grow up, especially with blonde hair,

Sevan Matossian (11:23):


John Hackleman (11:24):

I have a sister. And then we ended up having an adopted brother who was a local guy that was kind of my mentor. Um, not my mentor. He was more my protector. My mentor was my martial arts instructor and my dad. Um, and then I had a, um, a counselor that was definitely a mentor, but, um, but my dad was a tough, strong, his nickname Smiley Jim? No, Sonny Jim. His, his nickname, his name was Jim. And they, they, his, his, uh, his, uh, his, his staff, his, his and his, the newspaper staff would call him Sonny Jim. ’cause he never smiled. He was not a smiler, a hugger, you know. Um, but he was, he was a very kind, kind man, a very fair mayor, man, but not a very talkative man. And definitely not a, uh, not a smiler or a hugger or, you know, but, so that was Pops. And then I had a martial arts instructor that was just a badass killer that ended up in and outta prison a lot. And that was, that was my mentor in, in my fighting, fighting life. Um, and he was, he, he lacked the moral compass, like my dad had. But he was tougher. And he was teaching me how to fight, you know, I started with him when I was 10 years old. So he was one of my mentors coming up. Um,

Sevan Matossian (12:54):

John, before we go to that, before we go to that, go to that, I don’t want you to jump too far ahead ’cause I know, tell me, um, why did your dad go in the Army? Was, did was, was he drafted? Was he drafted?

John Hackleman (13:04):

No, he j he, it was during, during World War ii, but I think he joined and he joined, he was li he lived in Coronado, uh, the little island near San Diego. And his mom was a single mom. ’cause the father died when my dad was one. And there was eight brothers and sisters.

Sevan Matossian (13:22):


John Hackleman (13:23):

And she was, uh, she worked in the Hotel Dell, um, laundry room, which is still there. I’ve been there.

Sevan Matossian (13:30):

Uh, there the big huge white hotel there. The famous one in Coronado. Yeah.

John Hackleman (13:33):

Yep. Yep. And so she worked there for like 30 plus years. And then my dad went off to the Army after high school, lied about his age. He was 17. That’s why we always thought he was one year older than he was. But, um, then he went in the Army and, and, uh, uh, when he got out, he, you know, he, he went, after he went out, that’s when he, he went to West Point. So he went to West Point. He already, he was already a war veteran. So it was kind, it was kind of weird. But he did go to West Point and finish West Point, and then he, then he got a job in Hawaii.

Sevan Matossian (14:09):

Yeah. Um, uh, were you brought up with strong values? Did they talk about values and being an American and things like that? Or, or? No.

John Hackleman (14:17):

From my dad, yes. From my mom, no. And, and my dad, you know, they got divorced when I was eight or so. Uh, but my dad was a very staunch, strict, like, there was a surfing, uh, club in Hawaii called the Oh, Outrigger Canoe Club. It’s actually a canoe club, but they, you, it was right on the beach and near Diamond Head, and you could put your surfboard there and you could lock it up. So, like for us, we lived in Kaki. We’d have to hitchhike to the beach with our surfboards. And it’s hard to catch a ride to the beach, you know, and, and, and with a surfboard. So my dad got offered to be member of the Outer Canoe Club, and that way I could just park, I could keep my board there and I, I could catch the bus to the beach. Right.

Sevan Matossian (15:07):

Oh, right, right.

John Hackleman (15:08):

But, but they didn’t allow Asians then. So my dad refused to, they were gonna give him a free membership. ’cause he is a sports editor, so they want to have a, you know, they want to have him there for pr. But my dad wouldn’t, wouldn’t let me or wouldn’t join because they wouldn’t let Asians in. And I was like, I know, but I could put my surfboard there and then I could just catch the bus to the gym or to the, to the beach. It would make things easier on me. And, you

Sevan Matossian (15:37):

Know. What year was that? Do you remember what year that was, John?

John Hackleman (15:39):

I’m gonna, I’m gonna go with 70.

Sevan Matossian (15:42):

So who was president then? Is that Nixon?

John Hackleman (15:44):

I don’t remember. I don’t remember. Wow. Yeah. So are,

Sevan Matossian (15:48):

Are Hawaiians considered Asian? No, Islanders. Islanders aren’t Polynesian. Okay.

John Hackleman (15:54):

No, they’re Polynesian. There’s Polynesians, you know, Micronesians and, um, Polynesians are the bigger, like the Samoans and the Tongans and the Fijians and the Hawaiians. So they’re not, they’re not considered Asian at all,

Sevan Matossian (16:09):

But they got it. Uh, Richard Nixon was elected 37th President of the United States, 1969 to 74. Okay. I thought that shit was over by then. The, maybe,

John Hackleman (16:17):

You know what, maybe it was something that was, it was done already, but it was, you know, it used to be, there was something, a bad taste in my dad’s mouth about Outrigger Canoe Club, because there was some kind of thing against Asians. I’m sure we could find out what it was, but I don’t, I never really checked into it. All I knew was I still had to hitchhike with a surfboard. ’cause my dad had the values that he wasn’t gonna be, and be, be being a member of the, uh, I, canoe Club wasn’t cheap, you know, it was for the, you know, it was for the upper level guy, you know, high-end guys. But, and my dad, you know, being a sports writer for a newspaper, he didn’t make any money. So that would’ve been perfect for him. But he refused to do it because he felt they were, they were prejudiced against Asians, so he wouldn’t do it <laugh>.


So he did have a big, huge moral compass. Always do what’s right, always take your time, you know, whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. I mean, he was, he was that kind of guy, gruff, uh, you know, he was not much of a smiler. And he a man of few words for the most part. Uh, but he was a, he was a very, very good example for me in a lot of ways. You know, I would, I would win a fight and he wanted to teach me not to be a braggart or not to be a, you know, whatever. He wanted to keep me down a keep, keep me down a notch and keep my humility. So I’d win a fight and I’d be all proud. You know, I knock some guy out and I’m in, you know, 16 years old, and this guy was the Marines, and I’m the golden glove champ of the island, you know, or the state. And I’m all happy, you know, my, so my dad’s like, yeah, good job, John. The guy wasn’t very good though, let me tell you, you know. Oh, wow.

Sevan Matossian (18:00):

So he, oh, wow.

John Hackleman (18:01):

He was that guy. He was, my dad was that guy. And a lot of people, uh, would be like, ah, man, he’s, he’s, he’s breaking you down. Why would he do that? And I never once thought, my dad didn’t think I was great. I knew he was just making sure that I kept my humility. And I wasn’t, I didn’t become bigheaded. I always knew that. And it bothered, it bothered some people, but it never bothered me. And I never once thought, oh, my dad doesn’t think I’m good. I, you know, he just, I knew that’s the way he was. Like, when I got an a in, in, in algebra or physics and college, I didn’t go to college till I was like 30 because I just, I had kids at 19. I couldn’t afford it. And I got an A and I never, you really went to school much in, in Hawaii. And I was all proud of it. And, and my dad’s response was, yeah, I think I took that class in eighth grade, John, good job. Oh, wow.

Sevan Matossian (18:54):

So that was, wow.

John Hackleman (18:55):

So that was my dad. Okay. But I knew he loved me. I knew he loved me, and I knew he was proud of me. He just didn’t like to, uh, express it.

Sevan Matossian (19:03):

Um, your parents got a divorce eight, 11 years later. You had your first kid. That is crazy. Uh, when your parents got a divorce, did they, did they both stay on the island?

John Hackleman (19:13):


Sevan Matossian (19:14):

Did you go with your mom or your dad?

John Hackleman (19:16):

I stayed with my mom in the house and my dad moved, uh, my mom, he, he moved like a mile away. He, he had a little condo and, and, and he ended up getting married again pretty quickly. And, and, uh, you know, we weren’t that close. We, I didn’t see him that often, but, you know, I, I always knew where he was. He was right there. I just, I just started, you know, doing the martial arts. I spent a lot of time training and, and you know, I started that really young. And, uh,

Sevan Matossian (19:44):

Why did you start

John Hackleman (19:46):

The, the Kill Howley Day thing? You know, growing up, uh, in elementary school, I always heard about, you know, how much they hate the white man, they’re gonna beat up the howley. You

Sevan Matossian (19:56):

Heard about it, or you, or you experienced it?

John Hackleman (19:59):

Um, I think at that time, I haven’t really experienced it as much. Um, but I did get, you know, like fucking Howie once in a while, if you go somewhere, like we had a shopping center down the street, and, you know, sometimes I park my bike, you know, I, I see a local guy taking my bike and, and I, you know, he wasn’t trying to steal you, just messing with me. And then he, I remember one guy smacked me in the head once, ’cause I was saying, gimme back my bike. And he said something about effing howley and, you know, so I, I heard about Kill Howley This and Kill Howley Day. And it just, I, it scared me. And, and we talk about it a lot in elementary school, because usually this started heavy once I got to middle school. And I knew that things were gonna, shit was gonna hit the fan.


So I started looking for a martial arts school on my own in the Yellow Pages. And I found one, um, ’cause I like the logo, so I called it and, and I found out what time the class was, and I jumped on a bus the next day, and I went to class, and I walked into this 500 square foot room with a punching bag and a, and a pad again on the wall that you could punch. And I walked in and there’s a bunch of people training with black uniforms. And I, and I thought, um, this is, I’m, this is my home from now on. This is, I’m never gonna, this is gonna be me from now on. I felt so at home that first day. I never did anything but that again, since 1970. Martial Arts was it.

Sevan Matossian (21:34):

Weren’t the Yellow Pages awesome. Let your fingers do the walking.

John Hackleman (21:37):

Yes. I loved it. I loved, I loved, even when I, I’m still old. Even when I opened my first gym, I was using the Yellow Pages.

Sevan Matossian (21:46):

Uh, see my boobs, uh, Savon. Wow. You changed your picture a different angle on your boobs. That’s nice of you. Thank you. Uh, you originally, the, um, don’t you wish she had a computer? You’d see the boobs better? John, originally she had her boobs turned, so that YouTube symbol was blocking a, a larger portion of her boobs. Sevy just definitely worked out. Look at that Grease. I’m, I did just work out. I’m pouring sweat. Thank you for noticing. Wow. Um,

John Hackleman (22:11):

You are a fan. Holy shit.

Sevan Matossian (22:13):

There’s a few people watching. Wow. So, John, you, uh, so you go there, did you see any movies or anything? Were you Bruce Lee fan up to that point? Or it was just like, fuck, I don’t wanna get my ass beat.

John Hackleman (22:25):

Um, I was a huge Bruce Lee fan, but I think that came a little after. Um, I just, my, my main impotence was definitely when I hit junior high school. I don’t want to get my ass kicked. And I, I knew I was gonna a pretty rough junior high school. Um, my, my elementary school wasn’t really a rough school. It was kind of in a nicer neighborhood. And then right next to it, there was kind of a tougher neighborhood. And that’s where the junior high school was. So I knew, I knew things were gonna change, and I was kind, I asked my mom if we’d go back to the mainland and she used to laugh and say, oh, shout up. It’s not that bad here. Because as an adult, a working adult, you know, and a female, uh, it was a lot. D lo it’s, it was a lot different growing up as a, as a, a white male in, in Hawaii, as it is, than it is growing up as a, a white female. And I had long blonde hair then too, by the way.

Sevan Matossian (23:20):

Yeah. Right. Prove it. Um, golf, Foxtrot Yankee. I went to elementary school in Hawaii, moule Elementary in the early seventies. Kill Howley Day was a real thing back then. Yeah.

John Hackleman (23:31):

Yeah. So I was in my seventies. I was in the seventies too. So you, so yeah, it was a, it was a real thing. I mean, and, and, and martial arts. Martial arts stopped that stopped the kill. It stopped it, it, it, uh, and, and, and, and I was lucky enough to go to a certain martial art where it wasn’t just a Miyagi or a karate kid type guy. My guy was like, you know, Cobra Kai guy. He was like in and out of prison. And he was a really, really rough guy. And, um, training

Sevan Matossian (24:04):

There. Functional fighting. Functional fighting.

John Hackleman (24:07):

He was a very functional, like, like, you know, they do all those crazy weapons that martial arts guys do, and most of ’em aren’t functional. They’re like, like, uh, I don’t have one here. I had it. But they, and, and I used to ask him, Hey, how come we never do those weapons? He goes, shut the fuck up there. You know, if you want a weapon, get either a knife, a baseball bat, or a gun, other than that, we’re gonna use our fist. Okay. And he was just, he would, I’d be a little kid saying, why are we doing, you know, such and such move? And he would just tell me, uh, shut the fuck up and keep training. Yeah. Something like that.

Sevan Matossian (24:42):

Hey, um, John, um, uh, how old were you when you walked in there?

John Hackleman (24:47):

I was 10.

Sevan Matossian (24:48):

How far was it from your house?

John Hackleman (24:50):

Uh, man, I’m gonna have to Google that. It was, it was four four p coy and I lived on Ki Avenue, so it was, it was two bus rides.

Sevan Matossian (25:00):

Oh, shit. You mean a bus? You paid the money and then you’d get a transfer and wait for another bus?

John Hackleman (25:05):

Yeah, yeah. And I had to go to another bus. I catch the bus ride on 18th Ave. Then I catch my second bus on, uh, <inaudible> Ave. And that would get off on Capuli and Pete Toy. And I would walk about, I don’t a couple hundred yards and I’d be at four four PCO right now. 4 0 4 pco that the building has been torn. The, it was the strip mall. It’s been torn down now. K H O N, which is the channel two news is actually on, um, um, it’s actually on that same spot. So I took some of my old fighters a few years ago, some of my old students to 4 0 4 pco, and I wanted to show them where I started, but this huge, really modern building was there. And I was like, oh, shit, it’s been torn down. So I walked into the building and it’s K h O N news where my, where my dad did a little bit of, uh, he used to do some broadcasting once in a while when he was in the, on the newspaper. He tried, he, he did a little, uh, news casting for, I don’t know, about six months. It didn’t really work out for him, but I walked in and somebody goes, Hey, you’re Jim Hackman’s son. And it was kind of weird.

Sevan Matossian (26:16):

Oh, no. Shit. That’s crazy.

John Hackleman (26:18):

It, yeah. And right across the street from that is AAM Shopping Center.

Sevan Matossian (26:25):

That’s, Hey, that’s, that’s a trip. I, you would think that that’s

John Hackleman (26:27):

The beach. There’s Aleana Shopping Center, right? Yeah. That’s the parking lot.

Sevan Matossian (26:34):

Is your, is your, um, is your original coach still alive?

John Hackleman (26:37):

No. He died in 2001.

Sevan Matossian (26:40):

In prison?

John Hackleman (26:41):

No, he died. Um, he, at home, he got, he got a pardon? That’s, that’s Hawaii for you. The governor pardoned him. And then he, he was out for a few years and then he died. Um, but, um,

Sevan Matossian (26:54):

Did you ever wanna quit, John, in those early years? The first five years between eight and 13?

John Hackleman (27:00):

I, no, I was 10 and 15 in the first five years,

Sevan Matossian (27:03):

10 and 15.

John Hackleman (27:04):

I never wanted to, I never, not only did I never want to quit, I never wanted to stop going six days a week. Not even, there was nothing else I would wanna do, uh, more than I, I would never, you know, well, I can’t come today because of this. I never missed class. I never would. That was, that was my life from that day.

Sevan Matossian (27:24):

You hated holidays. If you heard the place was closed, you were pissed. You’re like, dude, just stay open.

John Hackleman (27:29):

I think at like 14 or 15, I already gave, he gave me a key. I would just, I would go in and train even when they weren’t open. I was, I was fanatical. I knew this was my life. It saved me at school. Like, uh, like when I started junior high school, I had already been training. And I already had, I already had, you know, the, I already had the look that I knew that I wasn’t gonna be anybody’s fucking, you know, victim. I wasn’t gonna be a, I wasn’t gonna be a a, nobody was gonna take my lunch money, you know? And, um, and nobody did. And, and, you know, I got pushed a couple times. I got, I don’t mean physically, but I got pushed to where I had to either look away. Like some, a local guy would say, if you look back at a local, they said, what the fuck are you looking at Holly or what you like beef?


Or don’t gimme stink eye or something. But I always had that look. And they look at me and they say, what? I go, what, bro? And I never, I never backed down because just training there for like, you know, just training there for two or three years with him. Walter Godin was his name. Um, I, I just knew nothing. Nobody physically would ever, ever intimidate me. And definitely not in school. And it didn’t. And, and I ne I never, I’ll never get over that, that that’s been with me, you know, a lot. And, and that’s made that, and that confidence has brought me, you know, through everything from jobs to college to the military, you know, you always have that, that confidence where you just, you’re not scared. You’re just not scared of anything because, you know, you just, you’re a martial artist. So anyway,

Sevan Matossian (29:11):

50. So you’ve been practicing 51 years now?

John Hackleman (29:15):

50, 53. Wait, 53. I’m, I’m 63, so.

Sevan Matossian (29:20):

Oh, okay. You’re right. Yeah. Your math is better than mine. That would be,

John Hackleman (29:24):

It was a long time. Long time. Long

Sevan Matossian (29:25):

Time. And, and, um, John is martial, is martial arts your purpose?

John Hackleman (29:32):

It’s my purpose. It’s my life. It’s, it’s everything. You know, it’s, uh, you know, it, it makes you a better everything from, from son to father to husband, you know, to employee employer. But you’re a protector also. You’re a protector of your, of your, of your ohana, which is family, which means, you know, community, your community, um, and you’re also, you know,

The above transcript is generated using AI technology and therefore may contain errors.

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