#944 – Ben Bergeron & Will Reusch

Sevan Matossian (00:00):

And it even better, bam. We’re live. I, my birthday happened and my wife walked in during the middle of the show and handed this to me and goes, the people watching your show bought this for you.

Ben Bergeron (00:13):

Whoa. Cool. <laugh>.

Sevan Matossian (00:17):

And I went like a little baby van. I went like the

Ben Bergeron (00:21):

Little baby. How does the, how does the, um, like it’s multicolored lights.

Sevan Matossian (00:25):

Yeah. So basically this is, it’s a steel sign. It’s, it’s like a, a piece of steel that I, I’m assuming with the laser was cut, and then behind it there’s a a L E D lights that are stuck. Yep. And it, it even came with the remote where you can change the color and have it do all this fancy shit, but I just leave it there on all the time. I

Ben Bergeron (00:45):

Love it. I’m coughing. Cool, right? I’m getting Yes,

Sevan Matossian (00:48):

Yes. Hey, dude. Uh, if seriously it felt, Ben, it felt like, um, uh, I haven’t earned a lot of things in my life. I, I, I, by that I mean like, um, yeah, I earned paychecks, but like, my kid earned a gray belt. Instructor walked up to

Ben Bergeron (01:07):

Go ahead. Yeah. Where, where’s, where’s Gray living the lifecycle.

Sevan Matossian (01:10):

J right after white. Yeah. Like, just like, so, so he, he went to Jji Juujitsu for a year and they gave him a gray belt. And then after, and I was like, afterwards, the instructor walked up to him and goes, no one can ever take that from you. You’ll have that your whole life. And that hit me like a fucking ton of bricks. I was like, oh shit. Because we live in this world where everyone’s like thinking they can choose their identity or they talk to kids about identity or what do you wanna be? Or, my kid didn’t have to do any of that. He earned something at six years old himself. No one can ever take from him. You get to keep that your whole life. Not the belt, per se, the physical belt, but the, it’s crazy. And so I felt like in my life, when the viewers bought that for me and organized that through with my wife, I felt like I earned it

Ben Bergeron (01:57):


Sevan Matossian (01:58):

You, you know what I mean? From my peers and shit. It was, it was crazy.

Ben Bergeron (02:01):

I don’t know how, like, how do they even like go about doing that? That’s really cool.

Sevan Matossian (02:04):

Social media, Ben. We’re all one big family. Yeah.

Ben Bergeron (02:07):

But how do they do that without you knowing about it?

Sevan Matossian (02:09):

Oh, did manipulate my wife. Manipul, you know, <laugh>, get my wife, you know what else? They bought me an 80 pound dumbbell. And that

Ben Bergeron (02:17):

That’s really cool.

Sevan Matossian (02:19):

Yeah. It it, yeah. It, it, um, yeah, it was dope.

Ben Bergeron (02:23):

How often do you use the 80 pound dumbbell?

Sevan Matossian (02:26):

Uh, more often than I should. I, I wanna work, I’m trying to work more often than I should, more often than I should. I, I wanna, um, uh, I wanna do, uh, a workout where I strictly for ego reasons, like to show off for my Instagram. I wanna do a strict muscle up, a hundred pound dumbbell workout, a hundred pound dumbbell snatch workout with strict muscle up. Legit, because people just think I’m just like this fucking midget old man who

Ben Bergeron (02:53):

Like Amanda behind a desk. Amanda. Amanda with strict and a hundred pound dumbbell would be

Sevan Matossian (02:57):

Legit. Yeah. Way reps though. I’m thinking like two strict muscle up, you know. Uh, a dumbbell snatch in each hand. 10 rounds, but just kinda like a, fuck you look at me, look what I can do. But I got hurt using the 70 pound dumbbell <laugh>. My, my,

Ben Bergeron (03:14):

That’s very CrossFit. So if you got hurt with a 70, skip to 80 <laugh>. Cause it’s not, it’s the, it’s the, the curse of the, the, there’s certain weights that don’t work. That is crazy. You see, like athletes do that at competitions, Uhhuh, they miss like a, uh, you know, they’re progressing up in snatches. They go, they go two 50, they miss two 60, so they go straight to two 70 and hit it. Yeah. It’s like what

Sevan Matossian (03:38):

I was, I was lowering a 70 with my left hand, uh, slow on purpose to try just to get, I dunno, more pump or more stimulus. I dunno what the fuck I was thinking. And something hurt right there. So my right arm has progressed to the, um, 80, but my left arm is now back down to the 20 <laugh>

Ben Bergeron (03:56):


Sevan Matossian (03:57):

But anyway, I’m committed. I, it’s totally doable. Uh, good to have you.

Ben Bergeron (04:04):

Thanks, Wadi.

Sevan Matossian (04:05):

Uh, where, where are you sitting?

Ben Bergeron (04:07):

I’m sitting in my office in the gym is right there. Um, Natick, Massachusetts.

Sevan Matossian (04:14):

Yeah. Nice.

Ben Bergeron (04:15):


Sevan Matossian (04:16):

Do, do you have a, um, uh, a workout that’s kind of like your go-to workout that’s like, you’re not proud of, but like in a pinch, like it’s 11 o’clock at night and you haven’t done anything yet. So you do it, like, for me, it’s, um, I’ll do like, uh, 10, 10 minutes on the assault bike minimum a hundred calories and then like, uh, 12 leg lifts on the minute for 10 minutes, you know what I mean? Where I just lay on my back and hold a D ball behind my head and lift my legs up, like just really up and down. So, and I’m like, all right. And I’m sweaty and I’m like, okay, go to bed.

Ben Bergeron (04:44):

Yeah. There’s nothing I do at 11 o’clock, so No. All right. <laugh>,

Sevan Matossian (04:48):

You, do you have anything you do that’s just like, just a,

Ben Bergeron (04:51):

I have like, so if I’m like traveling, if I’m traveling mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I’m in a hotel gym, yeah. What I do is I just, I, I run the dumbbell rack with different movements. So I, it’s cuz you don’t need any warmup. It’s, you use, so like, you start, I literally start with five. I just did this last week when I was traveling. I start with the five pound dumbbells mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I’ll do, um, like five pound, uh, double dumbbell front squats.

Sevan Matossian (05:17):

Okay. Yep.

Ben Bergeron (05:17):

I’ll do five of those. Yeah. And then I’ll go to the 10 pound, 15, 20. I’ll work my way all the way up to the fifties, and I get to the fifties, or if they’re seventies, whatever there is, then I’ll do the same thing. But next it’s with, uh, one arm presses. Okay. 5, 10, 15, 20. So that’s, but my favorite kind of go-to, if I’m just trying to jump in and do a workout is, um, three rounds of Cindy, uh, and a 400 meter run. And just loop, loop through that as many times as you want. Mm.

Sevan Matossian (05:44):


Ben Bergeron (05:44):

I feel like gets everything. And there’s, again, you don’t need a, I like the idea of like what you’re doing with, uh, salt Pike things. You can jump into that. You don’t need a warmup. Right.

Sevan Matossian (05:52):

Like, and you can kind of do basically brain dead and not hurt and not hurt yourself. Yeah. Basically. I’m trying, I’m at 51. I’m just trying not to hurt myself.

Ben Bergeron (06:00):

51 Savon. I did not know.

Sevan Matossian (06:03):

Yeah. Crazy. Right?

Ben Bergeron (06:04):

Whoa. Looking good, man.

Sevan Matossian (06:05):

I shave, I shaved a little bit of Elta look. 75.

Ben Bergeron (06:09):

Huh? I’m, this comes in gray, as you can see on the sides too. It’s like I might reverse skunk

Sevan Matossian (06:16):

Ben. This is the third, third time I think you’ve been on the show.

Ben Bergeron (06:20):

Sounds right.

Sevan Matossian (06:22):

On this particular show. And, um, uh, great podcast for those of you who didn’t listen to them, uh, some of the more, some of the things that I like Ben, for superficial, as they may be, uh, author of the book, chasing Excellence. Um, uh, first coach in the CrossFit space, he wasn’t the first coach. Shut the fuck up. He’s close enough. If he was, or if he wasn’t, he’s one of the first coaches. We’ll get into that in a second. Uh, coach of the, um, uh, the only coach in the history of CrossFit space to have two champions, uh, in one year. Uh, two crazy dominant, skillful, uh, uh, athletes. Uh, Matt Fraser and Katherine David’s daughter. Um, and when I was in the back, um, him and Matt O’Keefe, when I would film the behind the scenes every year at the games, we formed a, um, what I would think was a unique and pleasant and kind of charming, uh, simple relationship. I would see them. It was always nice. We would kind, if they, I would congregate with them. I would kind of, that’s where I would take my breaks. We would eat these, I would pass these out.

Ben Bergeron (07:26):

Yep. I remember. That’s amazing. The listing. Except they were the green ones then.

Sevan Matossian (07:30):

Yes. Did the green ones. I don’t have the green ones here. I apologize.


Um, and, and, and then, and then you went on and, and I knew your wife actually before you because I went to, uh, I, I met her, uh, through the same thing. She was a top 10, uh, CrossFit games athlete. Um, I went to the IMG Academy with her, uh, in early on. Went with a handful of other athletes. And I, I bonded with her there. Uh, great lady. Um, Heather. And then I also actually, ironically, or not ironically, but interestingly enough, I had the chance to work with one of your daughters every year. Um, who just, you know, every once in a while you meet a cool kid, not a lot of them. Uh, and she was cool as shit. So I would get up at five in the morning, meet at the hotel, and me and her and, uh, Nicole Christensen would jump in Dave’s car and spend the next 15 hours together. And we did that. You know, it’s crazy. So she was so cool.

Ben Bergeron (08:26):

Yeah. So it, it’s Maya and she’s 23.

Sevan Matossian (08:30):


Ben Bergeron (08:31):

And this would be her. This will be her. She’s been to 12 straight CrossFit games at age 23 and worked for HQ for all of those.

Sevan Matossian (08:43):

What does she do now? The day? Not, no,

Ben Bergeron (08:44):

I say I should say for not, she did not work for hq. She worked for HQ or for us in CompTrain.

Sevan Matossian (08:49):

What is she doing for,

Ben Bergeron (08:50):

She works for us now. So she does all logistics for the athletes, like, uh, rental cars, flights, hotel, setting up body work, um, getting meals, all that stuff.

Sevan Matossian (09:04):

Oh, I’m so sorry. Maya. Maya. I, I I hear you. We were at the top and now we’re fucking, we were at the top Maya.

Ben Bergeron (09:14):

Uh, you know, it’s like hanging with

Sevan Matossian (09:16):


Ben Bergeron (09:17):

You know. I,


So I’ve had a lot of nostalgia over the last couple little bit. Uhhuh <affirmative>. And you, you started off with that, you know, behind the scenes. Yeah. You know, literally the savon behind the scenes of those years of like 2012, 2000 to 2016 ish. Those were pretty cool years. Savon. It was, uh, it was, it was you. We really, I mean, I, I felt like I was really a part of something really special that was growing. I wouldn’t say exponentially, but certainly linearly every single year. And looking back on it, it was, it was true. Like those were really amazing years. And I, you know, I I I’ve, I’ve tried to piece together why they felt so special and not to, you know, make, give you any more accolades than you need. But a big part of that was what you were doing with, with that behind the scenes.


We were, you know, you think about what all the sports are doing now, and I say all the sports, but golf with full swing, f1, with Drive to Survive Tennis with Point Break. They’re giving all of the viewers access behind the scenes to insight into what happens in these athletes’ lives in normal every day, leading up to and at and during the, the biggest competitions, and you and HQ were doing that 10 years ago. They’re all just starting to do it now. We were 10 years ahead of the curve. And that’s a real, I th I think that’s why it was so easy to feel like you were a part of something. Even if you were kinda like tangentially a part of this thing. You’re just like getting into it as a fan. Cuz you got access to these athletes like you would never get in other sports and, you know, on, on, you know, for what it’s worth it that doesn’t exist anymore. We, you know, but then we had fittest film rode to the games and avon’s behind the scenes. And that, that’s kind of like trifecta. You got, you got engrossed into this re because you got to meet the personalities.

Sevan Matossian (11:43):

What was the Fit tour, Ben? I don’t remember that. I’m sorry. You wrote to the games was insane. That was he Mar and Mariah

Ben Bergeron (11:48):

The Fittest films.

Sevan Matossian (11:49):

What was that?

Ben Bergeron (11:50):

You know, like, uh, um, world’s Fittest. The, the film

Sevan Matossian (11:54):

That they made. Oh, ok. So they would do those documentaries, the documentary? Yeah, like Dubai and, okay, okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ben Bergeron (12:00):

You know. Um, and it was really, that was an amazing, amazing time. And it was because of the me, you know, it was because of a lot of things. But the media was I think at the forefront

Sevan Matossian (12:10):

Of it. Oh, sorry, I know what you’re talking about. We would do the yearly documentaries, correct. Yeah. Okay. And then we had Road to the Games. Correct. And then we had the behind the scenes. Yeah. It was that

Ben Bergeron (12:20):


Sevan Matossian (12:20):

That, that Oh my God. Wow.

Ben Bergeron (12:22):

Wow. That, that access to the athletes in our sport. It was unprecedented then. I mean, the best, the closest I can think that came up to it was like the Ultimate Fighter for ufc, but that was only one show and we were putting out three. That’s pretty cool.

Sevan Matossian (12:42):

And, and, uh, and the, I don’t mean to, uh, dog on the ufc, but the Road to the games of the was a thousand times better than UFC’s embedded. Now I know they do embedded 12 times a year, but, uh, embedded and Mars, what’s what that is. They, before every, um, pay-per-View event, they have like a pay-per-view event every month. And then the week prior to the pay-per-view, pay-per-view event, you get to, there’s a 10 minute video that comes out every day. Oh, got it. Where you’re like back there with them while they’re trying to lose weight or FaceTiming with their kids. Shit like that. Hey, um, during, during that time, um, there were athletes who gave me, um, uh, and coaches that gave me more access than others. I, nothing, nothing for, uh, nefarious reasons. I think it was strictly, I, I don’t know what the reason why is actually, but there were people like Josh Bridges, rich Froning, um, uh, Katherine, David’s daughter, Annie Thor’s daughter, uh, um, there were just athletes. Um, uh, Benny Gerard, uh, Travis Mayer, um, uh, usually men, it, it was, it was rare that the women would, would be as open as the men. Not that they were closed off, but they were, uh, they were wound a little bit tighter. The women. Would you say that’s true the women were, are wound a little bit tighter at the event? Generally speaking?

Ben Bergeron (13:59):

I would say generally speaking, yes.

Sevan Matossian (14:02):

But there were people like Katherine and Annie who were not wild. So they, they were more like kind of dudes. They could shoot the shit crack jokes. Yeah. Um,

Ben Bergeron (14:10):

Yeah, I mean, competition’s hard and because competition’s hard, it, it tugs on emotions. And I think that females in general, okay, blast me if you want to. But I think they’re, they’re an emotional, you know, more emotional than most of the guys are. And the guys probably, um, deal with stress a little bit differently than women do. Um, and that’s probably why they get a little more closed off. But, you know, like there’s a reason that, you know, I enjoyed coaching catcher as much as I did because she wasn’t that type of athlete as well.

Sevan Matossian (14:49):

You know? Um, I had never thought of this, but I’d never seen any, I’ve seen a lot of men, uh, start doing the weird yawning shit and or like Matt go over to the bushes and start gagging. I I never actually saw any women do that. You’re, they just go way in. They seem like they would go way inside. Whereas the men would sort of express it more like, I mean, Josh was, would just start talking crazy shit.

Ben Bergeron (15:14):

Josh was entertaining.

Sevan Matossian (15:15):

Yeah. Um, rich would talk some crazy shit. Uh, Matt Fraser would start, you know, like, feel like he’s gonna throw up. Um, so yeah. May maybe women internalize it and men it comes out. But did you ever see any women like going over to the bushes and gagging or, or having any kind of those outward manifestations? Maybe? Um, Sam Briggs talked. She got a little talkative chat. Chatty Kathy.

Ben Bergeron (15:36):

Yeah. Uh, it’s funny that when the guys feel stressed, they get chatty. Cause that, you know, I I think that I’m the opposite of that. Um, and the women, I think they, it just, they manifest emotions more like, I don’t think you see as many guys crying between events and that’s not a rare thing for the female side at all. So I think it’s just the way it, it it comes about, you know,

Sevan Matossian (16:06):

Some, someone in the comments wrote, um, uh, Ben Bergeron is doing a, um, media tour. I do, I do. It does seem like he’s been on a lot of shows. Ben did not contact me by the way. I reached out to Ben and Susa reached out to Ben and asked him to, um, come on the show. So he, he’s not like he’s, I dunno, it doesn’t matter whether he is or isn’t, but I just wanted to be, uh, clear, uh, wa zombie a zero access to athletes now unless you run them down on the way to the athlete area. Ben, uh, this was not how the show was supposed to start. Um, you said in your interview with talking Elite Fitness that you think CrossFit, I, I want to use your exact words because maybe we’re on the same page, but I think we’re not on the same page. <laugh> you think it’s the most stable it’s it’s ever been. Um, and I think it’s the least stable it’s ever been.

Ben Bergeron (16:58):

Yeah. It’s, it’s, um,

Sevan Matossian (16:59):

And so I was like, wow, this, that’s a cool, um, I’m, I’m op I’m open to it being the most stable. Okay. Yeah. And I’m open to having a proximity bias to things that would make me think that it’s the least stable. But I, but I’m so curious what, how and why we see it so differently or what you use as a, as a marker for thinking it’s the most stable. I could be mischaracterizing what you’re saying. I’m not quoting you. Yeah. Maybe you didn’t use the word stable.

Ben Bergeron (17:25):

Um, if I use the word stable, that was probably, that was probably misspoken. Okay. Um, cuz I don’t believe it’s most stable. I believe that they have as good of a foundation for the competitive season as they’ve ever had.

Sevan Matossian (17:40):

Okay. Okay. And you know what, you did say it has the best foundation it’s had, and then you didn’t say for the competitive season, but all the examples you gave were in regards to the competitive season. I, I, I want to say something to scratch your back here. And you said something so fascinating there that I’d never fucking heard before. When, when this, this year and last year, I dunno if it’s the year before, but 10% of all the best open athletes individual go on to the finals. Yep. And you say something in that interview, I think it’s with Tommy or, or you say it with Patrick, um, Cummings that maybe just Patrick Cummings. You say, how fantastic is that? Because now we have 10% of the people, now these are my words. I’m twisting your words a little bit. Who think they’re competitive?

Ben Bergeron (18:28):

No, that, that’s my words.

Sevan Matossian (18:30):

I said that. Oh, okay. Yeah. I thought you said who are competitive. I’m, I’m, I I threw in think they’re competitive <laugh>, but, um, that’s fucking gr and you’re like, who wouldn’t want that? I’m like, yeah, that is great.

Ben Bergeron (18:40):

Yeah. So I actually think

Sevan Matossian (18:41):

It’s great.

Ben Bergeron (18:42):

So it’s, what they’ve done is they’ve exactly that. So this is why I think the foundation, so let’s, I’m, I’m happy to, you know, sit on this one for a little bit. I think that the competitive season is established. I don’t think that they, everyone’s talking about like, they need to have the tour. Like they should bring in Dubai and Waterloo and we should go on this. All these, we have the, the, the funnel, you have the open, literally the biggest, as far as I know, biggest participatory events in the world, then that goes boils down to quarters, semis and games. Four stages. Like, I don’t think we need a whole lot more than that. We could talk about it, but what they’ve done a phenomenal job of is, prior to this, there was only the people that were trying to get to semi-finals that were competitive athletes. Which is, I mean, you could throw all those people into my gym, like it’s a tiny number. It’s, and what they’ve done with the finals is said top 10%. So everyone’s striving for that. And if you make that you are a competitive athlete, like that’s,

Sevan Matossian (19:53):

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Ben Bergeron (19:54):

And that’s a cool thing to be able identify as. But it’s not only, here’s what, it’s not only the 10%, because if you finished and they’ve done this percentile, you get a percentile ranking. Now you are in the 19th percentile. Those people are not going, oh, I’m not competitive. They’re going, oh, next year I’m on 19th percentile. I didn’t realize I was even that close next year I can make it to quarterfinals. And what they’ve done is they’ve given them a carrot. Yeah. We don’t want someone to chase. Yeah. It’s like we all want that. It’s the dopamine, it’s the, it’s the goal. It’s the, we want that accolade. We want that, um, that achievement. And we want to be able to, to take the next step up the competitive ladder. So what they’ve done for all these people is we’ve gone from a, a, a few hundred athletes to, if there’s literally from a few hundred athletes that make the semifinals to not just 10% of 400,000, but 20% of 400,000. They went from a few hundred athletes to 80,000 athletes that identify as competitive.

Sevan Matossian (21:03):

Meaning all the ones who made it inside the fence and then the ones who are clinging to the fence. Oh,

Ben Bergeron (21:07):

Exactly. Right. Okay. Yeah, that’s a big thing. Now. That’s what I mean in terms of the foundation has probably never been as solid in terms of a season. Oh, okay. In terms of the actual

Sevan Matossian (21:20):

Games, the business, the business is unraveling, I think like, like, like, like they got, they’re in trouble,

Ben Bergeron (21:26):

I believe. I think I believe. All right. So here’s, we just talked about this from the first few years of the games were neat, interesting, fun. Right? So, you know, we can kind of call that like CrossFit Games 1.0. And I would say that it

Sevan Matossian (21:48):

Was, it was a crazy party. It was meeting people that you, you saw their scores in the, in the blog.

Ben Bergeron (21:52):

And I would say that that would even carry through to the first year at the StubHub Center. Sure. Fair. You know, so 2010, you know, when Reebok came in, we call it eleven, twelve, thirteen. Like that’s a big step up. Instead of the winner getting, you know, <laugh> a a a $500 gift card to Rogue. You know, it’s like this is something that these guys can live off of for a year. And I would call that 2.0 and 2.0 was dope to be a part of, cuz it was you doing the media stuff every year. The, the soccer stadium is getting fuller. The tennis stadium is full.

Sevan Matossian (22:28):

Um, and, and it was still gritty. It was awesome. It was still like some fuck you throwing around and yelling. Yeah. Cause

Ben Bergeron (22:34):

You, it was still like, it was still like, you think you’re the best come and prove it here. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So that was a really, and I would say that was like 2012 to 2016 ish. Um, that was a, and again, I really believe a lot of that had to do with the media that was surrounding this thing and the interest. So I would call that CrossFit Games 2.0. I would say CrossFit Games 3.0 is Madison, you know, and I would say that we’re, if we’re in 3.5 or four right now, I don’t know, I haven’t seen much growth. I really haven’t. I mean from 2017 to today, and yeah, there’s an asterisk in there with Covid cuz Covid messed things up. But we’re past that now. I think it’s been flatline at best and probably down and, you know,

Sevan Matossian (23:33):

Hq there’s a chance there might be half as many affiliates now, Ben, as there were in 2018.

Ben Bergeron (23:38):

Well, let’s just stay on the games thing. Like forget about the affiliates, but like, just on the game side of things.

Sevan Matossian (23:42):

Well, don’t you think that’s the fuel for it? The, I mean the, no,

Ben Bergeron (23:46):


Sevan Matossian (23:46):

Don’t. Okay. Okay. I don’t,

Ben Bergeron (23:48):

I I think that this is a sport. So I don’t think the NFL relies on Pop Warner. I just don’t, I don’t think the NFL relies on high school football. The NFL is the NFL and they’re gonna get the freaks and the monsters and as long as they’re putting on a great broadcast, the big overweight dads sipping the, you know, not sipping, chugging the Bud lights in the parking lot and going in and losing their minds. And that’s gonna be there. And I feel like it’s the same thing with if, if CrossFits relying on the affiliate model to support the games, I think that’s totally misguided. Now I think that they need to rely on the affiliate model to support CrossFit. You know, that’s like the, the business model is get people to get affiliated and take certifications. It used to be, it used to be a three-headed, this is my take from the outside, the revenue streams were 3 3, 3 legs of the stool. The affiliates paying the yearly affiliate, affiliate licensing fee, getting people to take the seminars from level one to level four and all the SME specialty certs. And back then it was signing up for, you know, uh, the CrossFit journal and Oh, um, the journal, I

Sevan Matossian (25:03):

Don’t, the games was revenue. It just wasn’t profit. You could throw the games in there too. It generated a shit load of revenue, but just no profit. Okay. That was the point. Fair enough. It it was a wash. Right. Bring in 30 million and throw out 30 million. Yeah.

Ben Bergeron (25:14):


Sevan Matossian (25:14):

Um, we disagree wholeheartedly on there. I don’t think the NFL does exist without Pop Horner, but I don’t want to turn this whole show into that. Yeah.

Ben Bergeron (25:21):

Why tell No, no. Let’s, tell me about that <laugh>.

Sevan Matossian (25:23):

How, um, I I I think if you just, if you made football so that, um, uh, it’s, it’s the funnel. It’s the funnel. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a, I don’t wanna say it’s an organic funnel, but, but it’s an organic funnel. The, the Pop Warner, the high school football, the college football, all of that is, is the same as our, um, uh, L one training affiliates, um, wanting to work out, uh, the soccer moms going to the gym. I think it’s all, that’s what it is. And that’s why I think events do so, um, events that miss that piece, um, do so poorly. So I think that’s why regionals did so well, because they really attracted the funnel.

Ben Bergeron (26:12):

No, I think regionals did so well because they were regionals.

Sevan Matossian (26:15):

Right, right. And that’s one of the pieces that attracted them to the funnel that they were regional. Right.

Ben Bergeron (26:20):

So meaning so

Sevan Matossian (26:21):

That all of Victus could come drive. Yeah, I could

Ben Bergeron (26:23):

Drive to that thing. Yes. So we are in Massachusetts. Regionals was in Albany, New York, a two hour drive. People could day trip it or overnight it. Right now our athletes go to Orlando. Nope. Like we had four people from our gym go down to Orlando. Right. Whereas before we had 4d

Sevan Matossian (26:42):

And, and so I think everywhere in the United States, everywhere there’s a, uh, huge Pop Warner program. There’s a huge high school program. There’s a huge college program. And that those people are interested in, uh, in professional football because of that.

Ben Bergeron (26:56):

Yeah. I, I, I don’t know. I think that, uh,

Sevan Matossian (27:00):

You think that people go there, but don’t get me wrong, I don’t wanna poo on the athleticism and the quarterbacks and all that. I love that. Like

Ben Bergeron (27:07):

The, the sport needs the sport. Of course we need a funnel for athletes, but we don’t need the, the sport for fans. Like how many football fans played high school in football? My wife Heather loves to watch. She, we don’t miss a Patriots game. We like, we watch every single minute of every single game. She’s never put on pads before. So she’s a fan even though she didn’t play it. And that’s done such a great job, is they’re not just looking for people that play the sport. We’re never gonna get there that way. We’re never, if the goal is a hundred million ufc UFC you don’t

Sevan Matossian (27:46):

Agree with you. I don’t agree with you. I don’t agree with you there, by the way. I don’t think how we look, I don’t agree with you there about maybe we never get there, by the way.

Ben Bergeron (27:55):

We No, we can get there. We’re not gonna get there if we’re relying on the people that are gonna be, our fans need to be doing this thing. We need to get the people outside of our sport like golf is doing like Formula One, formula One exists,

Sevan Matossian (28:10):

Right. Formula One exists. No one’s doing Formula one. Right. <laugh> like Right,

Ben Bergeron (28:14):

Exactly right.

Sevan Matossian (28:15):

You have seen, but everyone does drive a car.

Ben Bergeron (28:18):

Car fi fine. Everybody, everyone squats, everyone presses things above their head.

Sevan Matossian (28:22):

Right, right.

Ben Bergeron (28:23):


Sevan Matossian (28:24):

I wish I could offer you one. I wish I could offer you one.

Ben Bergeron (28:27):

Can you smell my breath through this? Is that

Sevan Matossian (28:28):

Fine? No, I can’t. I never offered it to you. Cuz I could smell your breath too. You guys were too tall. I never smell your breath. Hey, um, I, I, the, the, the three of the most sports that I thought were the most boring sports in the history of the world were golf, baseball, and tennis. And my kids play tennis and, um, I’m fascinated by tennis now.

Ben Bergeron (28:48):

Tennis is a cool game.

Sevan Matossian (28:49):

Yeah. I’ll stop play. Like, and tennis is,

Ben Bergeron (28:51):

But tennis is doing the thing, right? They have point break, they have the, they’re getting you behind the scenes. They’re telling the story of the athletes. They’re pumping media into this thing. So here’s like that, back to that full circle. I, I I think it’s time for, because we’ve been flatlined for seven years, um, and probably trek shutting down. I feel like CrossFit HQ has had the shot to do this thing and it’s not happening. I think that they should spin this thing off, license it out to a, uh, a media company. Um, like I mg or like what, you know, when Dana White came in, he eventually turned to this, the UFC into a media company. Like, uh,

Sevan Matossian (29:30):

They could just bring me down back, Ben. They could bring me back and I could change it in, in three years. No,

Ben Bergeron (29:35):

You’re not enough. You’re help, but you’re not enough.

Sevan Matossian (29:37):

I’m great. Could do it in three years.

Ben Bergeron (29:39):


Sevan Matossian (29:40):

I could run the media for three years and the whole thing would be fucking completely change.

Ben Bergeron (29:43):

Or like, or like what F1 has done, F1 sold to a media company and they create this drive to survive. Or like, and disgust

Sevan Matossian (29:50):

That you don’t think I’m enough.

Ben Bergeron (29:51):

Live golf. Live golf just bought the p e g and you or you sell this one of these massive, uh,

The above transcript is generated using AI technology and therefore may contain errors.

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