#785 – Seth Gruber | A Voice For The Unborn

Sevan Matossian (00:00):

Uh, bam. Or Live, is that microphone plugged in U sb?

Caleb Beaver (00:04):

No, this is just in an audio jack

Sevan Matossian (00:07):

On the computer. Oh. And, and it does. Okay. I’m going to, I have to figure out a way to get you a better one. You’re, what’s crazy is your au not that it’s horrible, but your audio is better in, um, Afghanistan or wherever you were.

Caleb Beaver (00:21):

I, I was using a different set of headphones too, so that might’ve done it too.

Sevan Matossian (00:25):

All right. I’m Exci, I’m, I’m, I’m very excited about, uh, this guy coming on. Seth Gruber. You guys, dunno who he is. He is a, uh, a powerhouse. Let me see. Um, oh, let me see if everything’s okay. If he got, if he’s getting in. Okay. Uh, cool. I’ll jump on. Almost right at nine. I apologize crazy with the kids. Uh, you can extend your opening statements and I’ll be on momentarily. <laugh>, I said, Hey, low stress, this show is f easy and fun. Chill. Uh, there’s no, but for me, obviously there’s no better excuse than, um, kids. Uh, Tom, uh, Gurin iii, Seth Gruber leads an organization named after a German underground resistance. My high school German teacher made us, uh, watch Sophie Scholl and the White Rose in, and it’s extremely impactful, highly recommended, made us watch Sophie Sho and The White Rose. That’s a movie, uh, Sophie Scholl and The White Rose.

Caleb Beaver (01:31):

Yeah, it looks like it. I’m pulling up, uh,

Sevan Matossian (01:35):

I’m ready to watch the cycle of Saban’s, uh, uh, conversion come to completion this morning. Well, I know, right? It could, could be, uh, Sophie Sho and the White Rose Movement, while less known to Americans as a pow, powerful example of the youthful resistance to the Nazi regime. Youthful resistance. Okay. I should watch this. Netflix, iTunes, YouTube.

Caleb Beaver (02:00):

I dunno. Let me look, see where it’s at.

Sevan Matossian (02:03):

Uh, okay. I won’t read that then. Um, it’s cold Minnesota this morning. Hi, Trish. We don’t know if you’re a man or a woman. It’s fine.

Caleb Beaver (02:13):

It’s on prime,

Sevan Matossian (02:15):

Uh, Amazon Prime.

Caleb Beaver (02:16):


Sevan Matossian (02:17):

Is that, is that gonna make me cry? Uh, Mr. Geron

Caleb Beaver (02:20):


Sevan Matossian (02:23):

Uh, I don’t, I don’t know why. Uh, um, I don’t, I don’t know why. Uh, abortion, um, podcast and skating. I’m texting a friend who wants to go to breakfast. I’m podcasting and skating. I don’t know why. Uh, I’m, I’m obsessed with, uh, the abortion topic and the race topic and the, and the covid topic. I don’t know why I am obsessing on him, but, uh, boy, man, the, the, the thought that we’re killing babies is, um, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s no bueno. Especially, uh, when, when, when I was born, hi, Seth. Good morning.

Seth Gruber (03:09):

Good morning.

Sevan Matossian (03:10):

When I was born, I was born, uh, pro, pro-choice. That was like given to me by my parents. I don’t, I don’t even know if, if I, and all, all society, everyone around me, I don’t even know if I ever even met anyone who is pro-life ever. And then all of a sudden, I don’t know, maybe just through doing this podcast one day, I was just like, holy shit. Like, what a noble. Cause even like, I can’t think of a more noble cause than being pro-life. Like even if the pro-choice people are right or there’s some like, greater good to them, how could you be pro-choice and ever be upset at anyone who’s pro-life because they’re trying to examine something that would save babies from dying? And, and, and Woo, thanks for what you do, dude.

Seth Gruber (04:01):

Absolutely, man. Thanks for your, thanks for your voice.

Sevan Matossian (04:04):

Yeah. It’s, um, it’s something that, uh, you, you know, I was born in the Bay Area, um, raised to be a good compassionate tree hugging, uh, liberal, uh, and do, and do everything right. And, um, and we, we called racism affirmative action. And it took me a while to figure that out. Um, right. And we did it under the guise of compassion and kindness. And, uh, we always had compassion and kindness just going one way. Like you, like you see, there’s only, there’s compassion for all the people. There’s no, you never hear any compassion or kindness for cops or the difficulty of what they’re doing. Or you never hear society, you know, it’s always cops needing more training. It’s never like, well, maybe society needs more training and everyone needs to be taught to say, hello, officer, thank you for your service. And maybe see what the, that simple deed would do to have an impact on, on the movement, which I think it would be the, the greatest cha change in, I dunno if it’s civil service, if I’m using the right word, but I think that would have the greatest impact of anything we could do.


If every human being, every time they saw a cop, they went out of their way and said, thank you for your service. I think the impact would be mind boggling. Wow. And then there’s people like you, because we never look at the other side, right? Oh, wear a mask, get an injection, and let’s quarantine. That’s great. No one ever was like, well, what are the, what can we talk about what the impact of that is? Same with the gun thing. I’m all for abolishing lo guns. Only after you tell me what the impact would be, cuz I don’t want to end up like Australia and Canada

Seth Gruber (05:29):


Sevan Matossian (05:30):

But no one wants to say that, right? It’s just like, Hey, but kids won’t die. Well, what about, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s this lack of looking at both sides of the teeter-totter.

Seth Gruber (05:38):


Sevan Matossian (05:39):

And then there’s someone like you who’s like, so say that again.

Seth Gruber (05:42):

False compassion really undergirds Yes. The entire secular progressive ideology. And what’s

Sevan Matossian (05:49):

That mean? Secular. I always hear you guy, the, the Jesus guy saying that, what’s that mean? What’s secular mean? That means I don’t believe in God

Seth Gruber (05:56):

Se secularism, uh mm-hmm. <affirmative>, atheism. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, the belief that there is no higher power. Uh, the belief that we’re, we’re just kind of cosmic, uh, sludge, um, banging around in the universe. Um, there’s, there’s no intrinsic dignity attached to the individual because there is no higher power. Okay? So this idea of the Imago day that Christians refer to in scripture, which means the image of God. Okay? Um, according to Secularist, that’s a joke as well. Um, you, Jesus Christ, uh, God the Father, that’s really, it’s just the, he’s just the sky God. He’s just something to make you feel, uh, comfortable about, uh, what will happen after you die. There’s no, there’s no rational basis in which to ground a Christian worldview. Okay? Um, and so the real conspiracy theorists are Christians, right? So, and it, that, that would be sort of what secularism, uh, wri large would say.


So when I refer to secular progressivism or secular humanism, um, I’m referring to kind of the most deadly religion, um, that world history has actually ever seen. Um, you probably know this brother. You seem like an informed guy. And, and that’s why I I came under your podcast cuz I, I checked Thank you. What you do. And I was like, wow, this guy, this guy’s, he’s gotten something going here and he’s saying some, some stuff I like. Um, but, so you probably know this, but, uh, humanism took, uh, more lives in the 20th century alone than all of world history before it combined.

Sevan Matossian (07:32):


Seth Gruber (07:33):

In the year 1900 and 2000 more people were murdered by the state. Um, and we could, that kinda refers to everything, right? Any genocide that happened in any country within those 100 years. Oh. And also including unborn babies, right? More people were in more innocent human beings were murdered due to the religion of humanism, secular humanism in the 20th century than in all of world history before it combined. So, so, yes, brother, ideas have consequences and bad ideas have victims. And so what I, what I think you’re trying to do, and I know what I’m trying to do, is we’re trying to go upstream, aren’t we? We’re trying to go upstream from when these ideas originated. Um, w where did they get planted in the soil of the republic? When did these take rude? When did they become popular? Right? Where did this idea of abolish the police come from? Where did this idea of pornography in the classrooms come from? Yeah. Where did this idea of unborn humans might be humans and we’re willing to admit they’re humans because we all freaking know it, right? Oh, but they’re not persons. And, and there’s a litmus test for who’s a human person and who’s a human non-person. Right. Where did this idea come from That to love your neighbor, you gotta get quadrupled jabbed within, uh, and I’ll stop there. So your YouTube stream doesn’t get pulled.

Sevan Matossian (08:50):

It’s okay. Every show, every show gets flagged. By the way, we haven’t done a show, even I do a show on sports, it gets flagged. Yeah. I have to somehow say something bad about your show. Yeah.

Seth Gruber (08:59):

<laugh>. So, so that’s, that’s what we’re trying to do, right? Is, is we’re trying to say, wow. Um, if, if ever there was proof that I, that bad ideas have consequences or victims Yeah. Wouldn’t it have been the last two and a half years, bro?

Sevan Matossian (09:13):

<laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Horrible. And all I really care about is the kids, to be honest, cuz I have kids. And, um, that’s Yeah.

Seth Gruber (09:19):


Sevan Matossian (09:20):

That just kind of tipped me over the edge. Savon disappeared, and it’s all about my kids. Hey, what is there, there’s so many places to dig in here. What is the, what is the debate? Wh where h how, how are we supposed to think about this? Like, anytime someone brings up, there’s like, I hear it that it’s a women’s rights issue or it’s a, whether you’re killing a baby or not, issue. Are there, are there places that both sides are making presuppositions where they dig in, where is this, where is the debate happening? Oh,

Seth Gruber (09:54):

Of course. Seven. That, that’s always how it is, right? Yeah. Someone’s functioning off of certain, let’s call it philosophical assumptions, right? Um, here’s the thing. CS Lewis once said, um, the most dangerous ideas in a society are not the ones being argued for. They’re the ones being assumed.

Sevan Matossian (10:15):

Okay? Yes.

Seth Gruber (10:15):

Because assumed ideas, right brother. Especially when undetected can destroy a nation. Because when you assume something and it’s the Presuppositional foundation on which you’re operating off of mm-hmm. <affirmative>, then you’re not even aware of the kind of subconscious ideas you’ve absorbed. But that function as the philosophical foundation, right? Right. Of how you make sense of covid shutdowns, right. Of how you make sense of bodily autonomy, uh, of how you make sense of, uh, natural rights or political rights in a republic. All of these kind of debates that divide Americans come down to deeper premises. And I would add seven something Cardinal Manning said brilliantly. Um, and I’m, I’m not a Catholic, by the way, I’m, I’m a Protestant. But, um, I, I like to read widely and Protestants need to read more Catholic writers and Catholics need to read more Protestant writers. Um, he said, all human conflict is ultimately theological, all human conflict is ultimately theological. You know, when we talk about these issues, uh, seven, and then I’m gonna, I mean, I’m, then I’m gonna give you the very specific answer to your question that get your listeners, please fired up with the tools to defend please the unborn, please. But we’re trying to go a little bit higher first to understand what are we talking about when we talk about the right to life or natural rights when, when we talk about

Sevan Matossian (11:47):

Politics, natural rights. I, I wanna, I wanted to go back on look at that too. Have you talk about that too. Go on. Yeah.

Seth Gruber (11:51):

Yes. When we talk about political or all these political disagreements in our republic, seven, you know, we’re, we’re really talking about applied morality. Applied morality, because isn’t that what politics is? You’re applying certain moral principles, <laugh>, right? Every law imposes morality, bro. You know how people say you, you can’t legislate morality, dude, every law legislates, morality, <laugh>, okay. Yeah. Down to a debate over parking tickets, right? Right. You’re, you’re, you’re really asking what is moral? What is okay, right or wrong to find someone for parking in the wrong place. So when you’re talking about politics, you’re actually talking about applied morality. Um, when you’re talking about applied morality, you’re actually talking about moral principles writ large, right? Mor moral concepts, which then get applied in practice, which then become the politics. When you’re talking about morality writ large, you’re actually talking about, um, anthropology, right? What does it mean to be a, a human being? <laugh>,


Right? Right. When you’re talking about anthropology, you’re really talking about, um, uh, how we know things, right? Um, can we even know if there’s true or false <laugh>, right? Right. Um, because the, the agnostics used to say, you know, there is objective truth. Um, but we can’t know it. Okay? There is objective truth, but we’re, we’re blinded by our sense perception. So that’s a epistemology, the study of knowledge and how we know things, right? So, and then when you’re talking about epistemology, right? Ultimately you’re talking about theology <laugh>, right? Is, is is there an absolute truth? Is there a law giver? Why do we have this sense in our hearts as human beings, right? That, hey, it would be wrong if I robbed seven’s house and took his crap. Why? Why do we have these inward senses of right and wrong? Where did that come from? Um, why, why do we judge pedophiles more, um, more brutally or justly than we do someone who steals a pencil, right?


Why do we have that sense, that one, that some things are more evil than others? So what’s my point? As you begin to zoom out on political debates, moral debates, right? Um, uh, epistemology, can we actually know things at all? And now finally, you come out to, to, to theological principles that actually make sense of all of these concepts. And by the way, you wanna know what the religion that the vast majority of our founders in America believed in when they built this republic? So if you’re not a Christian, hey, I’m not here to, to bang a Bible over your head. I’m here to say, come reason with me. Right? You, you enjoy these rights that were built by Christians, right? Hey, if they were right about the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, which you hold so dear, hey, do you think they could be right about other things?


Right? So as Christians, of course, we believe human life is intrinsically valuable. Now, that’s different seven than instrumentally valuable. See, now I’m starting, I’m starting to zoom back in. I’m starting to come back down to the, the, to the root level with your question. Um, we don’t believe human beings are only valuable based off of what they can do or what they can provide to others, right? Or their utility, right? Utilitarianism that goes hand in hand with communism. It ain’t a good religion. Um, no, no, no. We believe that human beings are valuable. Seven, um, simply because they’re human beings, <laugh>, right? Cause we were created by God. And so there’s the image of God, and, and, uh, it, it says that God made us a speaking being right. We’re the only speaking beings, which is why if a, if a lion mals a human being, we don’t charge him in a court of law, do we?


Brother <laugh>, right? Right. But, but I, you would get charged seven if you murdered me, right? Because we hold human beings accountable to a different way than we do animals because they have speech and they have rational thought. And then John one, it says that the, the word became flesh. The logos became flesh, the logos, the logic, the divine logic of the universe that logos that creator, that God, he became a human being. We’re image bearers of that creator. And so we have language. And so we bear his image. There’s something about being human that makes us more valuable than any other creature. And, and, and you know what, even Christians, they acknowledge this, right? I know many atheists and deists and theists who don’t believe that Jesus Christ predicted and pulled off his own resurrection and rose again. And yet they would, they’re still with, with me, with you saying, but obviously a human being has more valuable than an elephant, a dog or a cat.


But, but it’s like, well, but why? If we’re all just cosmic sludge and this whole thing was an accident, <laugh>, right? Right, right. Then, then, then, then there is no moral irrational explanation for why I’m more valuable than my dog. Um, and so because human beings are made in the image of God, they’re valued, they’re right to life, they’re dignity. It’s not based on what they can or cannot provide to the human’s race. It’s simply because they’re human beings. So now let’s go in a little de a little closer. We’re zooming back into your question. Um, so what is a human being? When do human beings begin? I if we can agree with someone that human life is valuable simply because they’re human beings. And there’s something about hu being human that gives you these human rights that other species don’t have. If we can agree on that, even with someone who’s not a Christian, if we can agree on that, then what is a human being?


And when did one begin? Because if there are objective human rights, let’s say, well, let’s quote our founder, seven, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And then, then property gets added in the constitution. If those are these natural rights. And what do we mean by natural rights? You asked that earlier. You said you wanted to come back to that natural rights, um, mean that, that there are some objective rights that spring from our human nature that we have in virtue of being human. Meaning that there are some rights that you have from the moment you become a human being. And no one can actually take that right from you. What was the word our founders used? Seven. Inalienable uhhuh, <affirmative>, inalienable. What does that mean? Endowed. Endowed with certain inalienable rights. Well, what does that mean? Someone endowed us with these rights. God. So therefore no can take them away and I can’t give them up. Yeah. If you kill yourself through suicide, it doesn’t mean you don’t have a right to life. You can’t give these rights up and other people can’t take them from you. You have them in virtue of being a human

Sevan Matossian (18:01):

Being. Give me an example. One of these rights, Seth, gimme an example. One, give an example of one of these rights.

Seth Gruber (18:06):

Uh, the right to life, right? The right to liberty. <laugh> the right, the right to the pursuit of happiness. To quote our founders to, to quote the Declaration of Independence, right? That, that, um, that, that it is, this is why of course we, we have, uh, capital punishment, right? This is why we, we understood actually that, that the death penalty was not taking someone’s, um, uh, dignity from them. It was actually advancing the recognition of the dignity of human life. That, that what you did in taking someone’s life, in murdering an innocent human being. What you did is so heinous. It’s so hard to put into words that, that what is just, is that your life is taken too. But we understand that’s very different, isn’t it? Seven. That’s very different than killing innocent human beings because some people will

Sevan Matossian (18:58):

Their life. I don’t, I don’t that the I’m afraid to ask you this. Cause I, cuz you’re, I, God, you’re so good Seth, by the way. No. And thank you for peace. And lemme, I love

Seth Gruber (19:08):

Disagreeing on on podcasts. Go for

Sevan Matossian (19:10):

It. Let, let me give, uh, is he No, Heidi, I’m sorry. He’s not single. No, no. He’s got kids in the whole, he’s, he’s locked down. But thank you for asking and

Seth Gruber (19:20):

Ely, though.

Sevan Matossian (19:21):

Uh, so there’s two reasons why, and this will touch on, on why I’m still, uh, pro-choice too. There’s two reasons why I’m not down with capital punishment. I, I don’t, I don’t wanna make killers. And so to kill someone, you have to also make a killer. It’s back to the, it’s back to the uh, um, and, and I really can’t stand that. And then the other thing is, is I don’t trust man, meaning man will make the wrong decision. If we allow, if we allow, if we support the killing of people will kill the wrong people. It’s bound to happen, right? And so those, those two things make it so, um, okay. I, I can’t, I just can’t, I can’t get on board with intervening there. And, and I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you my problem with, I I really wanna be, uh, a pro-lifer.


Here’s the thing, just so you know where I’m stuck, and maybe you’ll unfuck me by the end. I know my audience would love it if you unfuck me. Is, um, I agree with you on everything. It seems like that you say, when I listen to you talk, except I don’t want to put, I don’t wanna put laws on women’s body and one of my b because I’ve, I’m afraid it’s a slippery slope. It says precedent for the wrong thing. Because I don’t do the injections for myself or my kids or anything. I don’t do forced, I don’t want anyone forcing me anything Interesting

Seth Gruber (20:33):

Drugs. Interesting. So, so my but my friend, I wanna make sure I understand your argument, okay? Cause I wanna do it justice. Good. Please. Are are, are you making a comparison between the laws that mandated the, and the laws that mandate not killing the baby as similar because they both compromise this concept of bodily autonomy?

Sevan Matossian (21:00):

Yes. I liked the way you worded that, that that was good. How you wedged that

Seth Gruber (21:03):

In. I think, I think I made your argument better than you

Sevan Matossian (21:05):

<laugh>. Yes. Not, not just the, that those are just the, just as examples. Yeah. As objective examples. Yes. Okay. Tho those are, I, I just don’t want, I don’t want the slippery slope of anyone ever telling

Seth Gruber (21:17):

Or I’ll let you finish your thought cuz I kind of interrupted you to make sure I understood.

Sevan Matossian (21:21):

Yeah, there was one more, uh, uh, uh, piece. But I’ll, but I’ll come back to it. Go ahead. And so, so, so that’s where the capital punishment, I can’t do that either. Do, do you do capital punishment? You believe in that?

Seth Gruber (21:30):

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I think we should make capital punishment great again. And here’s why. Seven by the way. Okay. But by we, by the way, you wanna know how many like actual capital punishments we’ve carried out in the last decade? Like, people who are actually killed by the state. It’s like two or three. Uh, we, we almost never carry out capital punishment anymore in America anyways. So there’s a whole ar there’s a whole, um, there’s a whole debate there that I, that I think is very valuable and that we could have it at length at another time. But let’s touch on it since, since we brought it up and we should examine it. Um,

Sevan Matossian (21:59):

Let me say what Carolyn wrote here real quick. Uh, Seth, uh, have you read Abraham Joshua Heche, God in Search of Man, uh, Judaistic philosophy in the trunk root of our Christian tree? A worthy read?

Seth Gruber (22:11):

No, no, I haven’t, but I’m familiar with, with, uh, with this author. Yes.

Sevan Matossian (22:16):


Seth Gruber (22:16):

Okay, good. So what, what, so yeah, when we’re talking about capital punishment, right? W um, there the moral concept at work here is a couple concepts. One, justice, um, secondly the concept of incentives, right? Uh, so let, let’s think of a recent example. Seven. Um, well, firstly, let me ask you this. Uh, do you want more or less people killed by murderers in America? Do you want more or less innocent people killed by murderers in America?

Sevan Matossian (22:42):

L less.

Seth Gruber (22:43):

Okay, so we’re on the same page. Obviously.

Sevan Matossian (22:44):

I want less, I want less people just killed like, like, yeah. By if by killed you mean like walking down the street and someone shoots you dead because they don’t like the color of your head. I

Seth Gruber (22:52):

Don’t like that. But what I’m saying, what I’m saying seven is, is, is that you’re, you’re a reasonable guy. And so you and I both understand the difference between, um,

Sevan Matossian (23:00):

<laugh> I don’t like violence. I don’t like

Seth Gruber (23:02):

Violence between you walking up to s to someone Yeah. And shooting them in the head for, because you just kind of felt like it. And hey, humanism, right? There’s no God, you’re no more valuable than a dog. You happen to piss me off so I killed you. Right? You, you and I understand the difference between that and get ready for this thought experiment and someone coming up to you while you’re on a walk with your family Yeah. With a knife and trying to kill your kids. Here’s the thing. Seven. Yeah, I know, I know you from a distance well enough to be dead. You would not. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You would not, you would not hesitate to kill that guy. And would it be murder? No, it would not be murder. Now if, if you failed for whatever reason, for whatever reason, he, maybe he was stronger than you may, maybe he came with two buddies and he, he just overwhelmed you. I know you’re a bus guy, but I mean, hey, it happens. You know, you get, I’m

Sevan Matossian (23:45):

Old though. I’m fitty, I’m fitty, I’m

Seth Gruber (23:47):

Fitty <laugh>. And, uh, and, and he kills your kid, right? Yeah. Um, here’s what I want in that situation. Seven. I want that guy killed by the state. Um, so, so do, do we get less or more murder? And I’m saying murder not killings, right? Because I know you were kinda, you would say, I just want less killings in general. Sure. We all want that. I’m, I, I’m use, I’m, I’m specifically discussing murder. I want less murder because murder is unjustified. Killings can be justified. We just, we disagreed with that. You’re killing that guy would be justified. I’m talking about murder. I want less murder. So do you get more or less murder when you, when you, when you almost never carry out capital punishment and therefore communicate to the criminal public that hey, if you murder people, highly unlikely that your life will be forfeit. Um, so

Sevan Matossian (24:34):

Law, I I hear you. It’s a mathematical equation. And if we can save more lives,

Seth Gruber (24:38):

Law is a teacher, right? Seven law teaches. Um, it, it, it’s actually one of the most powerful teachers in America. And so what’s, what’s an example of this? Let me just prove my point and then I’ll, I’ll put, throw the ball back over to you. Um, when, uh, they said defund the police, um, and Kamala Harris tweeted out a fundraising link to actually raise the funds to pay the bail for the B l m Antifa rioters to get back onto the street. She did that. And then you had Oh yeah. Yeah. And then you had, you had, um, you had many, uh, city governments, city localities and, um, county laws. Um, and there might have been some states that did this too. That, that, that said, Hey, if you, if you steal, but it’s less than $1,000 Yeah. You won’t be prosecuted. Okay. So, so here’s the question. Ready? Seven. I know you know where I’m going. Did we get less theft and rioting or more?

Sevan Matossian (25:27):

I think black on black crime rose, 34% on average in the United States during the defund, the police era. It’s, it was is a tragedy. We got all They suffered. Yeah. They suffered drought.

Seth Gruber (25:36):

We all, we all saw the people Facebook liveing robbing, robbing, uh, Nike sneakers and just rubbing,

Sevan Matossian (25:41):

Dude, I live in California. I know exactly. I I, yeah, I

Seth Gruber (25:44):

Saw it. I’m from California. So, so that’s my point law as a teacher, right? Yeah. Right. So when we say, Hey, if you murder someone, you’re gonna forfeit your own life. And then for decades, we have almost never carried that out. That teaches the public, oh, I can kind of get away with it. Like, I got these great Democrat, governor, these democrat lawyers, this whole, you know, uh, you know, criminal injustice system that’s very in ju unjust. And I can, I mean, hey, my buddy murdered someone and, and then he actually got out and, uh, or, or he has, he has a kush life reading books and watching Netflix in jail. Um, if, if if you, if you don’t carry out capital punishment, you get more murder. So, so I would, I, so, and then I’m gonna say something that might piss you off, but, um, I, I would never attribute to you motives because I would have to see your heart to attribute to you motives. Mm-hmm. But I will attribute the consequence of ideas to you. I know that you don’t believe seven I or I I know you don’t want more people murdered in America. Right. But when you don’t support capital punishment and, and you support never killing murderers by the state mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you will get more innocent human beings murdered as a consequence of those ideas and of supporting the politicians and laws that, that, that try to decrease punishments and never actually institute capital punishment. So I so I, so there if I pissed you off, I do. No,

Sevan Matossian (27:14):

No, no, no, no. It’s very, you know what’s cool about you? You don’t just say stuff. I know how you think you’re looking at it. I, I look at, uh, most things the way you just said, I wanna know, did the, um, vaccine kill more people or help more people? Like, it matters to me that the average age of death of someone had died from covid is 80. Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that’s, that’s really important to me. I need to know the math and, and I agree with you, of

Seth Gruber (27:38):

You, while it was, it was higher than the, than the median death age.

Sevan Matossian (27:43):

Yeah. In, in Sweden it still is in Sweden. It still is. It’s crazy. Yeah. Yeah. We had this doctor on, he goes, it’s, it’s, you can’t even say that people died from Covid. You have to say they died with Covid. Cuz the average age of Covid death was two years higher than the average, uh, me, the, the median of death. So That’s right. I agree. You, except, except here I have a little asterisk, Seth, because of those two other things that I’m, that I’m still struggling with. Um, I don’t wanna make killers and I’m afraid the state could be wrong. But everywhere else I would agree with you. Um,

Seth Gruber (28:15):

And I will grant to you there. We know of the cases sometimes of, of incorrectly. Um,

Sevan Matossian (28:21):

What about the thing of making killers? What about the thing of like, when we send guys overseas to like kill people, they’re, we send 18 year old boys overseas and then they come back and they’re killers. I’m, I’m not saying it’s wrong or right. I, I don’t because we do need to send people overseas sometimes to, to kick some ass. Um, but, but no one ever says that. And that’s the obvious, right? It’s the same thing where they keep using this word abortion. I, I try not even to use that word, it’s cuz it’s killing babies. You’re killing babies. Here’s let’s say what it is. Yeah.

Seth Gruber (28:47):

But, okay, good, good. And we’ll get to that. Um, but we’re, this is good cuz these are some of the moral concepts that undergird the whole conversation. Um, <laugh> listen, you’re going to have killing period. So I I I hear you saying that. You, you, you, you, you don’t wanna make killers. You wish we had less killers. Yeah. Sorry man. Either, either we’re gonna have, um, more innocent people killed mm-hmm. <affirmative> significantly more. Do you remember by the stats, by the way, of how many people were killed because of the B l M and Antifa rights in the mostly peaceful, somewhat fiery summer of 2020? Um, it was,

Sevan Matossian (29:19):

I don’t, but it was, it was insane. Yeah. Well, how about starting the police station on fire with police in there.

Seth Gruber (29:24):

Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. But January, if you were outside the Capitol rotunda and you didn’t walk in, you might’ve had the FBI visit your home. But if you burt down a courthouse, Kabbala Harris paid the funds to, uh, to bail you outta prison. Um, so okay. More than 19 people had died.

Sevan Matossian (29:38):

Uh, 760 million damage to Ferguson. Just one city. Yeah. Only $30 million down at the capitol with no fire. Hey, if there’s not fire, it’s not a riot.

Seth Gruber (29:48):

Yeah, that’s right. And, and of course you, you know, the, the, the numbers seven about how many innocent people are killed about every seven days in Chicago.

Sevan Matossian (29:56):

Um, that’s nuts, right? That,

Seth Gruber (29:57):

That city alone, sometimes it’s, it’s gone over a.

The above transcript is generated using AI technology and therefore may contain errors.

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