#677 – Dale Saran

Sevan Matossian (00:00):

That relate to never Bam. We’re live. Good morning, everybody. Dale. What’s up? Good

Dale Saran (00:04):


Sevan Matossian (00:06):

Can you hear me?

Dale Saran (00:08):


Sevan Matossian (00:10):

Uh, Dale, when you were on the Brett Weinstein podcast, you had your, uh, shirt button, and now you’re on my podcast and you’re all casual and shit.

Dale Saran (00:17):

Yeah. That’s intentional. <laugh>,

Sevan Matossian (00:22):

Uh, Dale, Caleb. Caleb Dale.

Dale Saran (00:24):

How are you? Nice to meet

Sevan Matossian (00:26):

Dale. Uh, Dale. Caleb is deployed in an undisclosed, uh, location somewhere in the, in the, in the sandbox.

Dale Saran (00:34):

Oh, sweet.

Sevan Matossian (00:36):

He comes on here every morning. It’s not morning for him, but he comes on here every morning with me.

Dale Saran (00:41):

Oh, so what is it, like three 30 in the afternoon there, or some shit? 6:00 PM Oh geez.

Sevan Matossian (00:47):

Allison nyc. Hi Dale.

Dale Saran (00:50):

Holy smokes. There’s a blast from the past. Wow. How are you?

Sevan Matossian (00:56):

Uh, before we start with the great Dale, uh, who has a pretty amazing, uh, just life, uh, military career, and then as I know him in maybe the fourth or fifth, uh, iteration of his life, when he showed up, uh, well, actually he maybe showed up before me even. Um, we crossed paths. He was the general counsel at, uh, CrossFit Inc. And we worked together for more than 10 years. Very, very, very, very closely. Uh, I wanna say a couple things. I don’t, um, believe in, uh, transparency in people’s lives, that that seems to be a buzzword. When they fired Dave Castro, there were people putting a lot of pressure on Eric Rosa to, um, be transparent and say, why he fired Dave. Even though I’m no fan of Eric Rosa. I thought that was bullshit. If Dave wants to say why he got fired, Dave could say, I just use that as an example of like, not everyone owes transparency.


I don’t owe transparency to anyone because I’m just my own person. That being said, I wanna tell you something cuz it’s been quite the remarkable, uh, week here at the Seon podcast. 90% of all the money that I’ve made from this podcast, and I say this to you guys because I wanna share this with you because you guys donate, have donated so much money to me, and the show has generated money. 90% of that money that you guys send to me goes to raising my kids. It either goes to paying my mortgage, paying for their whatever they need. I the entire time of doing this show, I’ve bought a pair of underwear, a pair of socks. I’ve done nothing with your money except help raise my kids. The other 10% are just stupid little checks that I send for a hundred dollars to Caleb here and there, or to Matt Suza, or that we use to buy computers or microphones.


And I can’t tell you how appreciative I am of that. Like you have, you, you are helping me raise my kids on a level that’s, uh, I take so fucking seriously. Every dollar you guys have ever sent me goes to the most serious thing I do in my life and what brings me the most pleasure in my life. And that is my three sons. And I not only use that, um, to, uh, help my sons, but it, it, it, it leaks off on shitloads of other kids. If I may say in the most, most humble yet, it’s the most arrogant thing I’m gonna say. Every kid that crosses paths with my kids, it’s a blessing for those kids. And when my kids are in the classes with those other kids, those kids all benefit from the money that you’re paying that allow my kids to be in tennis, skateboarding, uh, jujitsu, music, all that.


And I want you to know that all of that money goes to individuals in my area that are basically small business owners. These are individuals who’ve dedicated their lives to help take care of kids, to help raise kids, to make kids better people. So one of the things that you can think about every time you’ve given money to me, whether it’s a dollar or a hundred dollars, is it’s going to some guy named John Smith who teaches kids tennis here in Santa Cruz, California. And you’re putting food on his plate too. So I just want you to know that’s the ecosystem that you’re supporting. Uh, and, and, and I, and I really, really, really appreciate it. Wad Zomi, thank you. One of the most consistent and best donors we’ve ever had, uh, for a’s next pair of, uh, Chos

Dale Saran (03:56):

<laugh>. Thank

Sevan Matossian (03:57):

Those. Are those are underwear, I

Dale Saran (03:59):

Think? No. Okay. I was gonna say, I don’t, is that a good thing or a bad thing? I wasn’t sure that that five bucks <inaudible> was that. He can just give you like for hand grenades.

Sevan Matossian (04:07):

I I also wanna share this one final thought. Uh, just so you know, in the last, uh, 10 days, without a doubt, the foremost powerful people in the CrossFit ecosystem, people that probably you might not even know their names, have either text me or called me, uh, numerous times to tell me that we’re absolutely murdering it. And, uh, these, this is, uh, pretty damn, uh, cool. Uh, uh, and there’s this court, uh, 200 of you that come on here every morning. I know sometimes the numbers go up over a thousand, but I know that there’s the core couple hundred of you. It’s because of you. And we’ve done it with positivity. Well, we don’t attack people, uh, for the most part. Um, we look at things, we look at things honestly and fairly, and, uh, the, the podcast is being recognized by it. But it just shows you, once again, the vocal, the, I don’t know if I wanna say the vocal minority, but this, you, you guys have really, you guys have really been, uh, profound. Uh, what happened on the seven podcast Instagram in the last 24 hours is, is, uh, man, um, people always say it humbles me. It doesn’t humble me. It flattered me. I don’t know what that means. When people say they’re humbled, like they accept the Academy Award, and they go, I’m humbled. What does that mean?

Dale Saran (05:30):

Uh, um,

Sevan Matossian (05:33):

Isn’t it? I’m flattered and I’m proud. I’m humbled when someone punches me in the face,

Dale Saran (05:38):

<laugh>, I’m flatter.

Sevan Matossian (05:40):

I’m proud when what?

Dale Saran (05:42):

I got humbled last night. I’m sitting here kind of half, I’m like, I wonder if seven can tell I’m listening to the right. I got a guy drill me playing hockey last night. I think he separated my shoulder. I felt it come up. Oh, he smashed me. He took advantage. I was in a really vulnerable spot. I played in a no check league, you know, and this guy just, I, I subbed in, it was 10 20 last night. One of the guys who runs the league calls me up. He’s like, Hey, we need subs. Can you come play? And the R’s about 15 minutes up,

Sevan Matossian (06:08):

No, check league Dale means that they’re not supposed to do that.

Dale Saran (06:10):

They’re not supposed to do that. And so I was, I didn’t brace myself because I didn’t anticipate it was like a 50 50 puck between us. And I reached out and I was leaning down and I was cutting away from the guy to try and not smack into him, you know? Yeah,

Sevan Matossian (06:25):

Yeah. And,

Dale Saran (06:26):

And he took advantage of it and was like, just unloaded on me. Like it was like we were playing.

Sevan Matossian (06:32):

Why? How is that cool? Does everyone kind of boo him?

Dale Saran (06:37):

Well, you know, the guys on my team were like crazy. The refs missed it. I mean, it’s tough. You know, it’s, it’s beer league hockey at 11, but you get some guys who, you know how it is. You got people who in wads, you know, why are people cheating in wads where it’s like, you’re never gonna be in the games. You’re, you know, the scouts aren’t here. You know, no bull is not here to sponsor you. You’re, you’re never <laugh>, you’re never going to compete. But yet, why do people do that? Right? Yeah. It’s, it’s, I mean, we know the answer, the answer’s ego, of course, but

Sevan Matossian (07:04):


Dale Saran (07:05):

Yeah. That well, yeah. That’s a, it’s a shortened way.

Sevan Matossian (07:08):

So explain this to me. It’s, it’s 10 o’clock at night and you get a text, Hey, can you come play hockey? So you go out there at 11:00 PM

Dale Saran (07:15):

No, earlier in the day, they put out a little call to, to some of us, and they’re like, Hey, the Sea League, you know, the teams are, it’s tough to keep the league running. And, you know, Friday night,

Sevan Matossian (07:24):

This is ice hockey, right? Yeah.

Dale Saran (07:25):

Okay. Yeah. And so I, earlier in the day, they’re like, Hey, anybody who can make it, we’re gonna be short. Both teams need guys, blah, blah, blah. And so, middle of the day, I talked to, you know, the wife. I’m like, Hey, what are we doing? You know, we going out tonight or anything? She’s like, no, no. I’m like, well, you all right? If I go, you know, beer league, I wanted HD H League, Ken the last night, <laugh>, I probably should be in the HDH League. I’d be a, I’d feel a lot better today. Um, but, uh, so, you know, I rogered up. I’m like, yeah, I’ll go. So I commit, you know, I’m gonna go out there. So it’s 10 20 at night, you know, go out there. Great game. It turned out, I mean, went to overtime. We lost an overtime, but still a good game. But I got drilled. I came in last night. I couldn’t even sleep in my own bed. I told my wife, I, I came in, I was just like, she’s sleeping. I dragged myself downstairs to the guest room cuz I couldn’t, I couldn’t lay right. You know, my shoulder’s all jacked off. I, I’ve had it dislocated and popped out a few times, a handful of times and separated. So I got a pretty good sense of what that feels like. And so right now I’m like, oh,

Sevan Matossian (08:23):

What quarter was that?

Dale Saran (08:25):

<laugh>? What quarter?

Sevan Matossian (08:26):

Yeah. Did you

Dale Saran (08:27):

Was in the, uh, <laugh>? It was in the think it happened late in the second.

Sevan Matossian (08:32):

And, and then were you out for the rest, the rest of the game?

Dale Saran (08:34):

No, no, I played the rest of the game.

Sevan Matossian (08:36):

Oh my goodness. It’s only

Caleb Beaver (08:39):

One more period

Dale Saran (08:40):

After that. Yeah. There’s only one more. I mean, tough enough.

Sevan Matossian (08:42):

There’s only three. There’s only three. There’s only three periods in hockey.

Dale Saran (08:45):

There’s three periods. Yeah.

Sevan Matossian (08:48):


Dale Saran (08:48):


Caleb Beaver (08:49):

Oy. Do plus play 20 minute periods?

Dale Saran (08:52):

No, we play 12, 12 minute stop time. Caleb knows he’s a hockey guy. You can tell he’s got hockey guy written all over him. He’s got the hockey mustache too. He’s got the serious hockey. Yeah. Look at that. I watch sometimes he’s going for the McDonald porn Stash special. I like it. Nice. Uh,

Sevan Matossian (09:11):

Dale was recently on, um, Brett Weinstein’s, uh, dark Horse podcast.

Dale Saran (09:20):


Sevan Matossian (09:21):

Um, oh, wow. Look at this. If you, uh, I’ll send you a link in the, um, private chat. Um,

Dale Saran (09:33):

What Allison NYC’s sending you some money.

Sevan Matossian (09:35):

Yeah, that’s what, is that what just popped up?

Dale Saran (09:37):

Yeah, that’s what it looks

Sevan Matossian (09:38):

Like. Oh, Allison, you’re too kind. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Spin. Good morning. Good morning. Uh, those, can you give us the, the ba So by the way, oh, can you just go to the homepage? Look what he’s done here. He’s made it so that you look at that, the podcast you did with him Yeah. Is the default podcast that automatically plays.

Dale Saran (10:06):

A lot of people have hit me up over it. He’s got a, he’s got a pretty, pretty good following. He’s a nice guy, by the way. I spoke to him a good bit off offline. It was really funny. They do in their recording, everybody’s on a separate, they do each on a separate stream. And then, you know, I guess they engineer it, you know, you probably know better than I do about

Sevan Matossian (10:23):

How that all works. They do that for picture quality. It records to your computer and then your computer sends it automatically to the post production crew.

Dale Saran (10:31):

Right. So, so afterwards we <laugh> we have to, they go, Hey, you need to finalize your, your stream. Something didn’t go through, so you gotta go in and finalize it. Right. So, so I log in and, and this guy, the guy, uh, right there, who’s got, uh, the, he’s got like Caleb’s mu hell, Caleb that looks like he could be your brother, John Bowes there. Looks like he could be. Look at that <laugh>. That’s, I mean, that’s eerie. Like there’s Caleb’s brother John. So John Bowes is an Air Force pilot. He’s a captain, good, good guy, and F 60 Sense. And, um, uh, I, he, he’s trying to direct me to log in, right? So we log in to finalize the stream and he’s like, okay, I think you got it. He logs off and I’m staring at what looks like it’s Brett just like that. And I’m like, I thought it was like the screen, so I’m just dicking around. Right? And then at some point, like he blinked or something, and I realized I wasn’t looking at an image. It was Brett was still logged in and sitting there, and John and I were talking, and I go, have you been listening this whole time? And Brett’s like, yeah, yeah, that’s me. Not a mannequin <laugh>. And so I got to, I got to spend probably, I don’t know, 15, 20 minutes chatting with him afterwards. He’s a super sweet guy.

Sevan Matossian (11:39):

Did he come to life a little bit? He’s so, um, um, he’s, so, I was gonna say stiff, but I’ll choose a different word. He’s so sober. He’s so sober on the show.

Dale Saran (11:51):

He’s, he’s, um, I think he takes his, his, uh, science scientist kind of, um, role seriously. And so he approaches it. I noticed that about like some of the folks, you know, around the, um, the, uh, science thing with Greg. You know, it’s kind of that same, trying to be dispassionate about whatever it is that you’re investigating. So I think he, I think he just tries to be, um, as detached as he can from it. But he, but he clearly cares, you know? And

Sevan Matossian (12:24):

Yeah, I wonder if it’s because they’re raised from that generation that our parents were raised in. There’s still a lot of people do it too, that there is a posture of professionalism that they want to give. I mean, we see all these people who appeal to, um, uh, you know, the fallacy of appealing to authority in their argument, but the doctor said, and so I feel like that’s kind of what he is doing. He’s like, Hey, I don’t, he doesn’t wanna show any, um, chinks in the armor.

Dale Saran (12:47):


Sevan Matossian (12:48):

And he wants to come across super professional, but, but he wasn’t like that off the air. Did did you ever see him laugh?

Dale Saran (12:54):

Uh, yeah. No. I, I had him cracking up afterwards. I I got him with a couple good ones and he was, um, he had somebody who wanted some help with some other things. And so, you know, he introduced me to some other people. But he’s, he’s super nice. And he had, um, some other folks on, he did a series of those. So, uh, he’s, you know, maybe the most mainstream guy, uh, who’s talking about that issue for me. So it was, uh,

Sevan Matossian (13:17):

Oh dude, he’s hugely popular. He’s, he, I mean, during the, um, definitely during the, um, heart of the, uh, whatever, what you, whatever you want to call the, the pandemic debacle, he was the voice of anyone with sanity. He was the largest voice and most prestigious voice with sanity on the air. No doubt. If, if there is a tier of podcasts, and, and, uh, Joe Rogan sits a top alone, right below him is this guy and some other guys. I mean, he’s definitely, and it’s cool that he used to be a lib, and then he’s had his shit unraveled, right? Yeah.

Dale Saran (13:52):

I’ve had several of those people. It’s really interesting that I’ve had sort of lefty folks, maybe more than even. So, the Right, right. Who, who have kind of reached out to me in, in this, uh, there’ve been a lot more people, I think, on the left, who probably got their eyes open who were like, whoa, holy smokes. And so I find myself kind of talking to people. I would normally have maybe been on the opposite side of the political spectrum, although I don’t, I would certainly not on the right. I, I, I’m, now I’m full collapser, man. Bring it on. What’s that? I can’t wait to, uh, I want it all to burn to the ground.

Sevan Matossian (14:23):

Oh, interesting.

Dale Saran (14:24):

Yeah. I don’t have any illusions that we’re at the end of the empire, man. I don’t, this is Rome circa neuro playing with the fiddle kind of thing. You know, we’re, we’re at the end of the empire and we just have to, you have to kind of come to grips with it, you know, it’s not, oh, the politicians ruined us and they brought us to this end. It’s no, our culture kind of collapsed. And this is, um, yeah, there you go. Yep.

Sevan Matossian (14:49):

Uh, become a libertarian for a few months until you realize the whole system is messed up. Then move on to anarchy where you want to change the system shortly after that, become a collapser and sit back and watch it while it all burns. What about the Constitution Dale?

Dale Saran (15:05):

Um, you know,

Sevan Matossian (15:06):

As a document by itself, it’s no good.

Dale Saran (15:08):

It was a great attempt at something, but I gotta say this, it’s really interesting. Only recently, I, I’ve been doing some reading. I went back to read, uh, some things on the Constitution and the, and the founding of it and all that. And I have to say that the anti-Federalists were correct that I think, I think the anti-Federalists who, you know, there, there’s those famous documents. And Hamilton was one of the authors. And, and you know, so were some of the founding fathers, the Federalist Papers?

Sevan Matossian (15:34):

I, what You tell me, tell me. Yeah.

Dale Saran (15:36):

The Federalist Papers were a series that were written, um, uh, looking arguing, making arguments about whether there should be a strong federal government. You know, before we had the Constitution, we had the Articles of Confederation and the conception of the United States as a, as an entity was that it was United States. And, uh, in fact, in the old, um, yeah, Madison j um, right. And the, the anti-Federalists were headed up by a guy named Brutus who used the, the, um, uh, he used the pseudonym Brutus. And you should, Hey, Caleb, check out. Look up Anti-Federalists and Brutus. It’s an, it’s an amazing thing. All of a sudden you read the, the complaints of the anti-Federalists who basically said, look, if you build a, a strong central government, you’ll come to regret it. That the, you’ll lose all the individual autonomy of the states. And what you’ll have is elitist swats, um, running things from Washington DC Yeah. Brutus

Sevan Matossian (16:38):

And pseudonym for one of the most forceful anti-federalists voices during the ratification debates over the Constitution. While scholars still debate the author of the Brutus essays, most believe they were written by New York Anti-Federalists. Robert Yates. Yates was a New York State judge.

Dale Saran (16:51):

Yeah. If you go read the Anti-Federalists, they get no run. Nobody talks about ’em in civics. But if you read the anti-Federalists stuff, it would be impossible to come to any other conclusion other than that. The anti-Federalists papers were 100% correct about what would eventually happen. If you had a stronger and stronger central government, you’d, you’d eventually wind up where we are now. And so I’ve come to, you know, I, I spent my life. I swore an oath to the Constitution of the United States, you know, all in it against all enemies, foreign, domestic. And then I had this epiphany recently, I was reading through all of this stuff, you know, historical stuff. And I realized that a lot of the things, um, that are wrong are, are baked into the system. And we got here not by accident, you know,

Sevan Matossian (17:35):

Um, is, is what you’re saying, scary,

Dale Saran (17:38):

Scary? No, I’m not, I don’t, nothing’s scary to me anymore.

Sevan Matossian (17:43):

Um, what, what about, okay, because it sounds, it sounds like it could be a little scary, right? You have kids in this world. You have people in

Dale Saran (17:51):

This world. Yeah.

Sevan Matossian (17:51):

And you’re saying that, that the, that the society is going to collapse.

Dale Saran (17:56):

Yeah. Well, scary. You know, I, whoa. Um, I’ll say I don’t, I don’t have that same sense for my children that I used to, because like, I can imagine that my mother and father, I was born in 69 and you’re, you and I are pretty close, like 71

Sevan Matossian (18:13):

Or something. 72. Yeah.

Dale Saran (18:15):

So I can well imagine that, you know, you have a, you have a rec recollection of the seventies. And despite what kids now are like, oh my God, it’s horrible and racism horrible. And I’m like, oh my God, you guys have no idea. Right? Like, I, I just remember what, you know, it was like in like 70, um, I went to, in 19 77, 19 76 or seven, the uh, federal district court judge in Florida was trying to carry out Brown versus the Board of Education. So Brown d Board of Education overturned separate but equal, which is a case called Plessy versus Ferguson. So the, the Supreme Court said, yep, you can’t have segregated schools separate but equal as bullshit. Now we’re gonna have integrated schools. Right? And that’s Brown v Board of Education. That decision actually came down in like the fifties, and then it bounced around. Cause the federal courts are like, okay, well now what do I do? <laugh>, Heidi, seventies, remember the seventies? He was high as a kite. Eh? It’s possible. Um,

Sevan Matossian (19:13):

Not yet. Not yet. Heidi. Not

Dale Saran (19:14):

Yet. Not quite. That was the eighties, Heidi. Yeah. Um, but, uh, um, the, um, so what happened was eventually it bounced around and then judges, federal judges were told that like the south and, and the north, I mean, everywhere kind of dragged its feet on integrating the schools, right? So, so the Supreme Court says, segregated schools are bullshit. That’s illegal. Separate but equal is not the law of the land Constitution doesn’t dictate that. So everybody’s gotta, you know, we gotta have integration. It’s like, well, what does that mean? Because the reality is what no judges wanted to deal with is that we’re segregated as much by maybe even more so like class than we are by race. Those are just proxies, you know, that we use. But I mean, I grew up, for example, like I grew up right next to the Hartford Projects. My mother was an orphan who grew up in the Hartford projects. There are broke white people living right alongside the broke black people in the inner cities, you know? And, um, so anyway, in, in 70

Sevan Matossian (20:12):

Years, lots of them. Lots of them. Yeah.

Dale Saran (20:14):

Lots of them. Lots of them. And, um, it, well, which, which brings up an interesting point, a little diversion here. Only, only on the Twitter victim stack can some kid who’s the son of a orthodontist and a, you know, uh, liposuction surgeon in Marin County, you know, he can be 19 and get confused about his sexuality. And now on the Twitter victim stack, he’s up here and I’m a piece of shit cuz I’m a white male, even though I grew up broke, joined the military, went to Afghanistan, and, but I’ve got white privilege, you know, so only in the Twitter victim stack do you, can you alter reality like that? Because in the real world, you know where you fall. If, if it’s true, if the current lefty paradigm that, that inner city blacks have it worse than anybody, if that’s the worst or the worst, then you can judge what society really thinks about you based on where, where you sit relative to the inner city project kind of reality. Right. And so I lived right next door, so I know <laugh>, I knew exactly what society thought of me, even though I was white, you know? Right. Well so in 1977, most people, you know, won’t remember this, and it’s kind of a forgotten chapter, but Star

Sevan Matossian (21:26):


Dale Saran (21:26):

Yeah. Oh yeah. That’s where I saw it down in Florida. Um, we were living there, I was living in Florida and the schools had decided, a federal judge said, well, we gotta integrate schools. And so this is when they started busing kids to different schools. And so me and my sister in about a dozen white kids who lived in this little apartment complex, right on the, um, right on the edge of Winter Park in Orlando, they shipped us to this, bust us in to Hungerford Elementary School, which had previously been a segregated all black school. And so they took like, I dunno, there might have been 15 of us total in the whole school, white kids, and sent us to an all black school. And so if you wanna, you want see what angry and unhappy looks like, you know, and I was seven at the time.


I remember coming home and I might tell my mom, you know, I was like, these kids hate us. They hate us. And I was like, and I didn’t know why I wasn’t, I wasn’t mentally prepared for that. You know, I didn’t have the context. What did I know? I was seven years old, right? So I, I didn’t understand anything about, you know, brown V Board. I just knew the black kids at school hated me and wanted to kill me. I was the only white kid in my whole class. Second grade, my sister had, uh, there was another two kids, like there was me and my older sister. She was three years older. And there was a boy and girl, she was closer to my age and then he was similar to my sister’s age. But that kid got sent home, uh, in an ambulance. I mean, they beat that kid mercilessly. And I used to, every day at recess, spend almost all of recess running. And I mean, I did nothing from the start of recess when we got out the door, it was like, it was odd

Sevan Matossian (23:02):

Because the kids were picking on you. Oh,

Dale Saran (23:04):

They wanted to kill me. They were, I mean, you know, they, they had a lot of hostility and anger and perhaps justifiably so. But you know what did, I mean, it got taken out on me cuz I represented, you know, I was a white guy. I was, you know, maybe the first white kid a lot of ’em had seen ever,

Sevan Matossian (23:18):

You know, Thomas Sowell has written about this quite a bit. He’s the, uh, black economist over at the Hoover Institute. And basically, one, one of the things he was saying is that, and I only say the black because I I think it’s relevant to the conversation, uh, it has nothing to do with his, um, his credentials. He, he basically said that, if I understand correctly, that they should have never forced the law. Like once it let went into play, they should have let everything be and let it slowly happen. He said, because who suffered the most from that were all the schools that Hall had all the black students. Yeah. Because, and he shows the statistics. Soon as you brought in the white students, all the test scores across the board dropped in those black schools. And he did say he shows that the highest test scores in the country at that time were coming from two all black high schools beating out all the white high schools. And soon as they brought in the white kids, it all got fucked up. So it was this, um, it was an idea, it was a thought. It was, once again, it was anti-science. Once again, it was like, Hey, the predictive value of what’s best for these kids is this, but we would rather have this because of our political ideology and they fucking ruined everything. Yeah.

Dale Saran (24:32):

You people would much rather have, would much rather have the sense of righteousness of, uh, you know, to virtue signal. We didn’t have that term back then than they would to actually have, uh, good outcomes. And I didn’t realize Allison went to Jamaica Queens. Hey Allison. I I see this. I, well, I lived in New York City too. I went to all black high schools more than once in my life. And, um, I tried to go to, uh, I started out, I lived over in that same area and I went to, my mom used to work in Jamaica Queens, which is a predominantly black part of New York City in Queens. And I lived nearby. I was supposed to go to John Quincy Adams High School. And I went to try out for the football team my junior year, and I was one of maybe 10 white kids to try out for that football team.


And they had the number one football team in the city. There were state city champs from the, the year prior. And so I went to try out for that team and that high school, and my mom came by to pick me up from practice one day tryouts, this is before school even started in like August of 80, 85. And my mother shows up and she’s like, oh my God. She goes, not this again. And I didn’t even, she sent me all the way across the city to a magnet school, international Baccalaureate School. And, uh, I used to have to drive into work with her in the morning and catch the bus across all the way to get to, to, uh, flushing Queens, to go to, to go to Francis Lewis High School because it had, you know, an international baccalaureate program. So I could justify going across the city. But she was basically like, we’re not, I’m not doing this again <laugh>, like I’m not going through you being in an all, all black school and, and what that entails, particularly in high school

Sevan Matossian (26:07):

B basically at the time since it was you were just getting beat up

Dale Saran (26:10):

<laugh>, just get in the dog ship beat outta

Sevan Matossian (26:13):

You. Uh, uh, uh, Kaza joiner. I went, I went to a college in Cleveland, uh, MS and the high schools were still, what’s Ms.

Dale Saran (26:25):

Mississippi? I, Mississippi, Missouri.

Sevan Matossian (26:27):

Yeah. Oh, oh, Cleveland, Missouri. Okay. And the high schools no,

Dale Saran (26:30):


Sevan Matossian (26:31):

Yeah. Uh, and the high schools were still segregated and forced to integrate in 2016.

Dale Saran (26:37):


Sevan Matossian (26:38):

I think, I think Haley was bused around. I think my wife was bused around in la

Dale Saran (26:42):

Yeah. And what’s famous about that is if you look back, you know, the famous national images that come out of that are, um, from South Boston High School. And of course I later married into south to the Irish when they bust all the black kids in from Dorchester and they bust them into South Boston. And they had the riots and you know, they, the, the famous images in the Boston Globe are the high school kids at Saudi, the Irish kids throwing rocks at the bus with the black kids coming over from Dorchester and said, oh, it’s, you know, terrible. But it, it, it happened in both directions. Of course it didn’t. It’s that kind of ity is, um, uh, you know, it’s kind of baked into us. And, and which is why after all of that, like, I remember Al Sharpton from the eighties when he was, you know, got a bunch of, uh, got a crowd ripped, whipped up, and they killed some Jewish folks in, in New York.


And that guy’s, um, been a fraud and a race baiting piece of shit my entire life. And yet now these guys all, all sit, you know, sharped in, I mean, a whole bunch of them, and they got a TV show. And so we’re not, we’re not here by accident. You know, there’s, there’s the, the race baters and all that, um, can’t move on. And, and so we’re like, it’s, no one’s willing to just stand up and, uh, and call, call bullshit on it, you know? So it’s kind of, it just keeps going and it keeps going and, you know, eventually it’s gonna break.

Sevan Matossian (28:08):

It is interesting when people like Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington, Lil Wayne, uh, Kanye, do cool bullshit on the system.

Dale Saran (28:18):

Look at what happens. Look how they get treated.

Sevan Matossian (28:20):

But, but Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington survived it.

Dale Saran (28:24):

Yeah. They’re

Sevan Matossian (28:25):

All, you’ve seen the interview right? With Morgan Freeman just destroy Don Lemon. Yeah. Destroyed Don Lemon. Yeah.

Dale Saran (28:30):

Yeah. And, and I, by the way, those guys are heroes to me. Denzel’s one of my, um, one of my favorite all time actors. I think the guy’s the shit, you know, and he’s, and he handles himself as a,

Sevan Matossian (28:40):

Won’t even do sex scenes with women or kissing scenes with women. Yeah. Bec yeah, because, uh, because he is married. What a stud.

Dale Saran (28:47):

Yeah. Dude’s a yeah, absolutely. Dude is a straight up stud, you know, and I loved, I’ll tell you who was the eighties were interesting to me in that, um, the biggest cultural icons of the eighties were in my life. Like if you were a football player in high school, I don’t care if you’re a white, black, if you played football in high school in the eighties, everybody’s favorite player, everybody’s idol was Walter Payton, you know, soft spoken black guy, number 34 for, for the Chicago Bears. And I was a Pats fan, but Walter Payton was the tits. You know, we all loved Walter Payton. Um, the biggest name in music and pop culture was Michael Jackson. Correct. Michael Jackson was mean walking his way over, you know, across,

Sevan Matossian (29:29):

We don’t have anyone like that anymore.

Dale Saran (29:31):

Right. And then the

Sevan Matossian (29:32):

Other thing, bill Cosby was also the,

Dale Saran (29:34):

The, yes. Bill Cosby was

Sevan Matossian (29:36):

Every, the whole country went silent when that show went on the air. Yep. Thursday nights

Dale Saran (29:40):

8:00 PM And then, and the other, uh, the other cultural icon of the eighties who dominated everything and who was beloved. And I loved him for, for one particular thing that happened was Michael Jordan. Right. Who didn’t wanna be like him with no race talk back then, Dale. Almost none. I mean, it was going on, it was here and there, but, but I never, I.

The above transcript is generated using AI technology and therefore may contain errors.

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