#607 – Brian Friend vs. John Young | CrossFit Debate

Brian Friend (00:00):

You’re assuming they all make it.

Sevan Matossian (00:01):

Bam. We’re live. Oh

Brian Friend (00:03):


John Young (00:03):

We are all. Alright, let’s do it. It just happened.

Brian Friend (00:06):

We’re fun. Seon. Do you still get nervous?

Sevan Matossian (00:09):

I I’m just, I’m just really. Hi. Hi Caleb. Hi, uh, uh, Matt, Susan. Hi Seon,

Brian Friend (00:16):

Susan now SU is wearing a great shirt. Can we bring him on the show instead of John today?

Sevan Matossian (00:20):

He just hit himself. Oh shit. He is wearing a great shirt. Look at that. How did you get that? I woke up about four seconds ago. I need more. I looked the clock. I looked at the clock, uh, Mr. Young and Mr. Friend, about 10 minutes ago and I go, holy shit. I can’t believe we’re doing this show.

Brian Friend (00:46):

I, I got outta the shower about 10 minutes ago and I thought, oh shit, this is happening.

Sevan Matossian (00:51):

I like your hair. Both of you look fantastic.

John Young (00:54):

Thank you, Brian.

Sevan Matossian (00:57):

You think you can you think, uh, Brian said you were gonna do 2 75 colds, uh, cleaning jerk

John Young (01:04):

Me. Yeah, I’ve done three 15 cold before

Sevan Matossian (01:08):

Just walk right in and just hit that shit.

John Young (01:10):


Brian Friend (01:12):

Damn. Cause it was, is it cuz of the TRT?

John Young (01:16):

That’s exactly what it was from. Yeah. <laugh> exactly what hill Hiller, let me have whatever he’s doing and just, uh, made

Brian Friend (01:23):

Me do it. Yeah. Barbells go up easy.

John Young (01:25):


Sevan Matossian (01:25):

Can you really do three 15 cold?

John Young (01:29):

Yeah, I, uh, what’s funny is, um, this happened this weekend. Uh, I’m doing this, this, uh, barbell club thing and we’re trying to advertise it and uh, I was like, well, let me like do a clean and then you can just take a picture of it. And then we can, that could be like a thing of it. And then we put three 15 on and I thought he was just gonna take one picture. He ended up taking like 20 pictures. So I just hold three 15 in the bottom for about 20 seconds. And my back is like, my face is redder than anything. And then, uh, he finally was like, okay, I think I got it. And then I stood up and I almost passed out on the spot. It was

Brian Friend (02:04):

Yeah, the demo video. It definitely wouldn’t have, have worked with anything less than three 15.

Sevan Matossian (02:09):

Is it, um, is that dangerous? Is that, is that it has

John Young (02:12):

To look pretty.

Sevan Matossian (02:13):

Is that dangerous?

John Young (02:16):

Um, if that was close to my max, it would be, but

Sevan Matossian (02:20):


Brian Friend (02:20):

Maybe they were the plates from that one guy. Uh, what is his name? Savan that used the fake plates in his garage.

Sevan Matossian (02:27):


John Young (02:27):

Forget Trevor rock Mar

Sevan Matossian (02:28):

Yes, yes, yes. Oh, Trevor had fake plates too.

Brian Friend (02:32):

That’s the, that’s the story. At least

Sevan Matossian (02:34):

I thought he was looping. That’s the same guy. That’s looping his videos, right. Or he loop

Brian Friend (02:38):

His video. Just didn’t have time to do the whole workout Savon. It wasn’t his fault.

Sevan Matossian (02:41):


John Young (02:43):

See was smiling. I was trying to pose for

Sevan Matossian (02:44):

It. Yes, that’s crazy. I, I felt, uh, so yesterday on the air, um, uh, Mr. Hiller fit did three 15 cold. Well, that’s not true. He did 2 95 cold and then, then he did three 15 and I almost felt clean. No jerk. No. Yeah. Just to clean. And I felt bad. Kind of like egging him on

John Young (03:06):

<laugh> Brian’s not in prep. I mean, he didn’t jerk it. It’s not really that impressive. <laugh>

Sevan Matossian (03:11):

He said I could shoot him up in the butt.

Brian Friend (03:13):

There’s a small chance I could deadlift that cold.

Sevan Matossian (03:17):

Oh God. That would snap me in half.

John Young (03:20):

Hey, you’ve been working. I’ve been watching your Instagram. You’ve been looking real fit lately.

Brian Friend (03:25):

Uh, I don’t know, just, uh, I gave myself Rado last week, so that wasn’t so good.

Sevan Matossian (03:31):

Oh, seriously. Tell me about that. That’s awesome.

Brian Friend (03:33):

It was, uh, it’s a classic classic case. I’ve been training body building and uh, power lifting. Haven’t been doing anything really dynamic, no tipping. Pullups just only strict pullups um, strict pressing whatever I did. I decided on a whim test to do the water pu qualifiers with couple people for my gym that are doing them. So I did the pull up that had 60 pull or the workout was 60 pullups for, just for pullups and I, my capacity for tipping, pullups it. It’s clearly not there. I also did the, um, snatching and overhead squat double and a workout like 10 minutes before that. And then the next day I did a workout that had a lot of toes to bar and needs to elbow and hang power cleans. And I buy stuff and lasts were fucked for like three days. There’s no discoloration of urine really, but really immobile really like pretty much stopped my life for like two days being able to be productive.

John Young (04:25):

You didn’t have robo

Sevan Matossian (04:26):

Then. Yeah. Thank you. Just serious dos, right?

John Young (04:29):

Yeah. Mm-hmm

Brian Friend (04:31):

Yeah, I guess so

Sevan Matossian (04:32):

I think that’s what

John Young (04:33):

Does your pee look like? What does your pee look like?

Brian Friend (04:36):

That’s dangerous enough to go to the, the hospital.

John Young (04:39):

I it’s not rad unless your P looks brown

Sevan Matossian (04:42):

By the way, Brian does sell his urine on eBay for $3,000 a jar. If anyone wants that brown

John Young (04:51):


Sevan Matossian (04:52):

Brown urine.

Brian Friend (04:54):

Oh, it happened to me one other time. And I did, I think I’ve told you this seven. I did the workout, Nicole, uh, 20 minute am rep four meter run, maximum broken pullups

Sevan Matossian (05:03):


Brian Friend (05:04):

I did have some discoloration of the urine. Then I still didn’t go to the hospital or need an IV, so I’m not too sure. But that was like eight to 10 days of, of pretty limited mobility. That was seven years ago.

Sevan Matossian (05:17):

The, I, I mean, I’ve definitely been so sore that every step, uh, is, is painful or like walking downstairs seems like it’s gonna be IM fucking impossible.

John Young (05:29):

My wife has gotten it before. Uh, we didn’t know what GDS were and when we found out, Ooh, uh, uh, she did a workout called Mr. Joshua, cuz she wanted to do GDS and it has 150 GDS in it. Ooh. And, and she was like, I killed that. And then the next day it had looked like I had done something very bad to her because she could not walk at all.

Sevan Matossian (05:51):

It was, Hey, there’s people who’ve been there’s people who’ve been permanently disfigured. You know that from, uh, doing GDS too many GDS and not being

John Young (06:03):

GCs in pull up. So cable number, those are the top.

Brian Friend (06:06):

I think kettlebell swings also.

Sevan Matossian (06:08):


Brian Friend (06:11):

I think so those are the three that I usually caution

Sevan Matossian (06:13):

People. Where do, where do you feel it kettlebell swings. Where do you feel it in kettlebell swings?

Brian Friend (06:19):

Uh, I think it’s lats. I’m not sure, but I’ve first heard, heard of people having that.

John Young (06:24):

Oh man. I feel like back would break down before you got to that point. I feel like you would just,

Sevan Matossian (06:28):

Maybe that should be our first debate question.

Brian Friend (06:33):

We got some good ones today.

Sevan Matossian (06:34):

What is most likely way to get Ravo? Um, the first debate show was fantastic. Thanks for guys for doing it. It’s gonna be hard to top it, especially at 6:00 AM.

John Young (06:44):

And thank you guys for doing it an hour early. I appreciate

Sevan Matossian (06:47):

It. Oh, anything for you, John?

Brian Friend (06:49):


Sevan Matossian (06:51):

What’s that what’s size shirt is that what’s size shirt. Is that John?

John Young (06:54):

A large

Sevan Matossian (06:56):

And it fits you?

John Young (06:56):

Yeah. That’s good.

Sevan Matossian (06:59):

Would you prefer an extra large?

John Young (07:01):

No, this would, I mean, this is about how all of my shirts fit.

Sevan Matossian (07:03):

Yeah, it does. It doesn’t look too tight by the way, either. I’m not seeing in that. You just look like a hu large man. And my shirt’s are large too.

John Young (07:10):


Brian Friend (07:10):

It? I also wear a large that’s crazy.

Sevan Matossian (07:11):

Yeah, I know. But you look like a bigger human being than Brian. Oh

John Young (07:15):

God y’all make me feel bad now because I got the same shirt. Well like I’m like 40 pounds heavier than both of you.

Sevan Matossian (07:21):

You should feel a little bad. You just have better body composition maybe than

Brian Friend (07:24):

Us. You think seven and I weigh the same amount.

John Young (07:28):

I think you are like 1 65 and he’s like one 50.

Sevan Matossian (07:31):

Oh God. I wish I am. What

Brian Friend (07:34):

Do you weigh? Seven.

Sevan Matossian (07:35):

I weigh at least 1 65. I am. I am a

Brian Friend (07:37):

I’m about 1 75.

Sevan Matossian (07:39):

I’m a thick chocolate bar. All

John Young (07:41):

Right. So y’all are, y’all are a little bit bigger than

Brian Friend (07:42):

That. Seven. He doesn’t give us much credit seven.

Sevan Matossian (07:46):

Well, my, my,

John Young (07:49):

Yeah, well I know seven’s short. Our, our, I don’t know how tall you are. Brian.

Sevan Matossian (07:53):

Brian’s tall.

Brian Friend (07:55):

Five tall. Are you?

John Young (07:56):

Okay? So we’re like the same height then. Okay. See, he’s like five foot.

Sevan Matossian (08:01):

Why does John look so big? Do you think it’s his head or his shoulders? Or why do you think he looks so big? His chest? His head a shoulder

Brian Friend (08:10):

Says says it all.

John Young (08:12):

It’s all my head.

Sevan Matossian (08:14):

Oh yeah. That’s a good question. Uh, how much do you weigh John?

John Young (08:19):

Uh, 1 95 to 200.

Brian Friend (08:21):

Oh, I was gonna guess 2 0 5 to two 10.

John Young (08:23):

I’ve never been over, uh, 2 0 3.

Brian Friend (08:28):

John Young is the prototypical male games athlete 5, 10, 1 95.

John Young (08:35):

Yeah. Just gotta be a little bit fit or, and

Sevan Matossian (08:38):

I know that’s what I think too. I think John’s at least 200 also.

John Young (08:43):

Not right now. Right now. I’m like 1 96,

Sevan Matossian (08:46):

Jody. You fell asleep in front of your computer. That’s awesome. <laugh> that’s curled up in a little ball, like a kitty cat, man. Uh, I, I have some questions for you. I haven’t watched any of the videos yet. I need to do it. What is going on with Tia is, is what’s going on? Is she’s com she announced, uh, on a local news show, stupid that she is gonna compete for the seventh time. And, um, she’s not going to rogue because she’s going to support an event in Australia. Are those the two? Um, is that the news on Tia? And it’s only stupid cuz she should have announced it here. I don’t. She can do whatever she wants. It’s purely for my own

Brian Friend (09:28):

Time. I, when I first saw that this clip here. Yeah. I actually thought this was like fake

John Young (09:32):

A joke.

Brian Friend (09:34):

It, it looks like it’s just cut together. Like do you ever see them in the same? I mean, look at this, uh, clip. So I don’t even know if this is a real clip or not. Uh, I’m not wasting my time talking to her or Shane or trying to find out what’s going on here. If she shows up to compete great. Should be the favorite. And if not, then we have a lot of other stuff to talk about.

Sevan Matossian (09:51):

You’re not wasting your time, by the way. Uh, can you go back to that clip real quick? They spelled my name wrong. I hate it. When they do that CrossFit games did that. It’s it says, uh, it should say Seon, really look at Seon. What really like they’re that’s supposed to be directed at me. <laugh> like they can’t like, they want to talk to me. They can’t even believe it.

John Young (10:14):

I do think it is very strange that she chose that to announce that if, uh, I knew on a news show to announce that she,

Brian Friend (10:22):

Why did they keep cutting it back and forth like that? So you can’t see them both.

Sevan Matossian (10:27):

Oh, it’s just someone being cute with reels thinking they’re being cute with reels over there. That’s a good point.

Brian Friend (10:36):

Also was uh, under the impression that she wasn’t competing at rogue because she’s still rehabbing her back

Sevan Matossian (10:43):

How’d she hurt her back.

Brian Friend (10:45):

She had a back injury or something a few weeks before the CrossFit games. If that’s true, it helps explain maybe some of the workouts that she struggled a little bit with at the games that didn’t really make any sense, like elevated Elizabeth and alpaca. And if, and maybe that’s a motivating factor for her. What I would’ve liked to see, like this is what I think happened. I think that she was planning to make this, her last year. She brought her whole family there. She told Mariah and the team that this was gonna be her last year. And they were setting up to do the video documentary series to document her last year. She goes on competing throughout the weekend. Maybe she has this back injury. She didn’t advertise. No one really knew about it. And she’s not putting up the kinds of performances that she wants.

Brian Friend (11:26):

And maybe halfway two thirds of the way through the weekend. She’s thinking to herself, this isn’t how I want my last year to end. But I’ve already told these people it’s my last year. They’re all expecting this certain thing from me. I could see where she could get into like a, a quandary in her mind where she’s like, I wanna be true to my word that I told them this would be my last year, but I’m maybe enjoying this and I’m not at my best. And I don’t wanna go out. I’m not my best. Maybe I can’t do wanna do one more. So it comes to the last day and she’s not sure what to do, but I mean, Sean’s gone on record talking about it. He would not have made that call on the live broadcast that will live forever on YouTube. If he wasn’t a hundred percent sure that that’s what was gonna happen. And he was certain of that because he checked against six different, you know, checkpoints that he thought were all reliable sources. Um, and she obviously made her own decision, which, you know, she has every right to do. I just wish that at this point she would just tell us if that’s what happened. Just tell us that that’s what happened, you know, instead of saying it’s going about it, all this kind of mystery and then whatever this interview was on some random news channel,

Sevan Matossian (12:26):

Um, the guy does look like a caricature of like a, uh, a news host. You know what I mean? Like he looks like he looks like he’s a part standup comedian part caricature.

John Young (12:37):

Even if it’s official though, I don’t, I don’t put it pastor to change your mind again. Like once the open starts rolling around and be like, I’m done, you

Sevan Matossian (12:45):

Know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Why not? Why not? I agree with you. I agree with her. But’s Brian’s a little frustrated that that happened to Sean though. He’s he? Brian’s got, uh, I

John Young (12:57):

Am, I am too.

Brian Friend (12:58):

Not just Sean.

Sevan Matossian (12:59):

Brian’s invested in Sean. Oh,

Brian Friend (13:00):

Not just Sean. It was also Nikki who is lining up to, you know, she was told that this interview was gonna go a certain way after the, um, and after the final event, it didn’t go that way. Kiki Dixon made an announcement on the floor there in front of the people in the Coliseum that is also now pro probably inaccurate. So it’s, you know, everyone was on the same page about what was gonna happen. And then she ripped the page outta the book and ate it.

Sevan Matossian (13:24):

I love it. Let me, let’s just say this. I, I, I, I I’m, I really like the way it played out, but let’s just say, let’s say just for shits and giggles. What if she would’ve just said so, so, so Nikki said to her Nikki, uh, Bre said to her, uh, so is this your last year she asked her? I

Brian Friend (13:50):

Don’t think that’s how you pronounce Nikki’s last name.

Sevan Matossian (13:52):

<laugh> why? What do you think? Um, what do you think she should have said if she had changed her mind?

Brian Friend (14:04):

I don’t know that that’s the moment to say everything that I just said, but maybe you say, um, I think what she said in the moment was fine. Okay. I think everything she did leading up to we’ll see is a great answer. It’s a teaser. You don’t know. Yeah. Everything that she’d done behind the scenes and that her team had communicated to all,

Sevan Matossian (14:22):

But let, but let’s say all of that was let’s say just like five minutes before Nikki asked her that question, she started having second thoughts. So what should she have said? Or do you think that she, she did everything fine that maybe just like a few hours later on her Instagram, she should have been like, Sean, I love you, Nicky. I love you. You guys. I can’t even believe I changed my mind. I’m so happy. I, I I’m, I’m, I’m

Brian Friend (14:43):

Glad I, yeah, a few hours, two, um, two months later, which it is now like, yeah, you’ve had plenty of time to reflect on that and make that situation right. For all those people that feel wronged by it and you haven’t done. I don’t think in the moment that she necessarily did anything wrong. That’s what I was trying to paint. The picture of is I could understand the dilemma in her mind. Yeah. And I think that the wheelchair and it’s

Sevan Matossian (15:07):


Brian Friend (15:07):

Answer right. Is a great answer if that’s the case, but then have a little follow up, reflect on it. Think about it, man. I did tell all these people, or I asked Shane to tell all these people that this was gonna happen. We didn’t do it. Let me make those those relationships. Right. Right.

Sevan Matossian (15:23):

Um, are you excited? She’s coming back

Brian Friend (15:26):

If she’s coming back to compete. I mean, the nice thing about it is that there are obviously, you know, three to 10 women that are on the rise that are all 26 years or younger, that are very good. And we’ll see if she was in fact injured this year and still was able to beat the field rather convincingly. Uh, can they make any headway in, you know, in the next 12 months? Um, now she has what we may, may believe to be the first setback of her career with this back injury, whatever it is. Um, and so we’ll see how she handles that and what some of these other young women are able to do. And, and yeah, I mean, it still gives, uh, the opportunity that you always want, which is for the champ to be defeated instead of to just leave.

Sevan Matossian (16:07):

Um, John last, uh, last debate show, we talked about the, um, parody, PA R I T Y sh should. What’s better for the sport to have athletes who are, um, you know, have their become dynasties, you know, 3, 4, 5, uh, wins versus really intense competitions where it’s changing every year. You know what I think we forgot to bring up

John Young (16:28):


Sevan Matossian (16:28):

Whether the sport is new or old. We didn’t consider that. And, and that, since we had that debate, I was actually thinking about that. I think it, I think it’s, I interviewed a guy the other day who

John Young (16:41):

If parody or dynasties are better for newer, old sport. Is that what you’re saying?

Sevan Matossian (16:45):

Yeah. And I interviewed this guy the other day. Um, his name was Kane wasin Chuck he’s the, they say he is the greatest individual athlete who ever lived, but no one knows who he is because his sport is racketball. He has 15 world championships or something like that. And, uh, I think a new sport, um, I started thinking may, maybe that’s better for new sports.

Brian Friend (17:06):

What is dominance

Sevan Matossian (17:07):

Dominance? So, so that they can have a poster child.

John Young (17:11):

I would say every, every sport that I can think of off the top of my head started with dominance. I mean, you have the CEL, you have the Celtics for basketball in the sixties, the Browns in the sixties for football, Yankees, baseball, the Yankees Canadians, every, every major hockey I,

Brian Friend (17:29):

It was, I think it was the Montreal Canadians that won shitload of championships.

John Young (17:31):

Okay. Or maybe Leafs, maybe Leafs,

Brian Friend (17:33):

One of those two

John Young (17:34):

Anyway, every big, big sport started off on dynasties. So, I mean, that might lead to what you’re saying. It might be better for the sport forward dominance, but I would argue it is more fun to watch when it is not dominant, but our sport is new compared to all of those for sure. But I also think CrossFit’s a little bit unique. Um, I don’t think you, I don’t think you can compare it to basketball, football, like other sports like that as far, uh, really in anything

Brian Friend (18:07):

It’s also, you know, we, and we’ve talked about this before. It’s just not a sport where you get to see the best compete week after week after week. I can’t do it. Cause you have like, um, disc golf, there’s a guy that’s, that’s pretty dominant six world championships in the last 10 years in the four years. He wasn’t, he was second place. Wow. But at any given week, he’s not the he’s not guaranteed to win. There’s a dozen other guys that could beat him on a two or three or four round tournament. Just how things go. So you have kind of a, like a little bit of both in that regard.

John Young (18:34):

Well, I kind of, I, I more think of like golf or, uh, or tennis. Like they have four major things they do every year mm-hmm <affirmative> and, uh, but

Brian Friend (18:43):

They have dozens of other tournaments. Also there’s a tournament almost every week,

John Young (18:46):

But there are yes, but like there major ones, there’s four. And like there’s dominant figures in golf, but there’s not one person who won every single tournament. Every single time. There’s a guy who wins a lot. And then he loses 50% of the time too. Um, I mean,

Brian Friend (19:03):

Golfs and flows, golfs and flows, there comes a guy or two guys that are really dominant for a stretch. And then there becomes a period of time, like we have now where there’s 30 guys that could win any tournament. And it’s, you know, so that’s a, we’ve had more years of golf to see that up and flow. So I’m, I’m waiting to see that in CrossFit so far, we’ve pretty much only seen dominance dominance. You know, it hasn’t been there. Hasn’t been a, a year of four or five years in a row where there are, you know, three to five men and women that are all contending for the title on the weekend at the CrossFit games,

John Young (19:35):

We had it with the women for a while, back in 2015, I know Kathryn won both years there, but we had no idea, 15, 16, 17, who was gonna win, uh, with the women, even though Kathryn won twice and, and Tia became what she was. It was very, very fun to watch. We did not know at the start of the competition who was gonna win.

Sevan Matossian (19:56):

I don’t know shit about golf. This is the way we’re way off subject, but fuck it. Um, I don’t know a lot about golf, but when I think of, um, basketball there, superstars gonna arise in so many different variants. Uh, there could be the three point, like, like the most recent one is, you know, in the last 10 years, the pop seems to pop up in pop culture is Steph Curry. Right? All of a sudden there’s, this just he’s reinvented the three point shooting game. Right. But there’s guys who are great at defense. Who, who, who you kind of like rise to the top or guys who dunk or guys who have great moves. Golf’s not like that. Right. There’s not a guy who’s just like the greatest fucking putter ever. And if he gets fucking close to the green, he sinks every shot. There’s just way too much variance in golf. Right.

John Young (20:38):

Well, the guys are so good. Like there’s nobody that can be that much better than everybody else. <laugh> like, you’re not a, guy’s not gonna make a hundred foot putt every single time he goes to the green. It doesn’t work like that. I imagine disc golf’s the same. I know Brian’s bigger on disc golf, but I, uh,

Brian Friend (20:54):

No, no it, but it is sevens, right? I mean, it’s the case. They’re and in golf, in disc golf, the similarities to CrossFit are that the, the tournaments aren’t always the same. The course is changed. You might have a course. That’s 8,000 yards long and one that’s 5,500 yards long, but very tight and in the woods for golf. And then, you know, those are gonna, and there’s a lot of trees lining it, for example. So you might want accuracy, accuracy would benefit you on the 5,500 yard course and distance on the 8,000 yard course.

Sevan Matossian (21:21):

Are there really courses in golf that are 8,000 yards? Or is that just a joke?

Brian Friend (21:26):

I think there are some, but there’re probably, that’s probably like, uh,

John Young (21:29):

Are you talking like 18 holes together is 8,000 yards.

Brian Friend (21:34):

Yeah. If hole one is 350

John Young (21:36):

Yards, he was thinking he was thinking one

Brian Friend (21:38):

Hole, adding them up. I

Sevan Matossian (21:39):

Was like, geez,

Brian Friend (21:40):

You get the total distance for the course.

John Young (21:41):

I, I saw where your mind was going so long.

Sevan Matossian (21:43):

Thank you. I’m I don’t do go. And, and, and here’s another thing, I don’t know if this is true, but I heard my kids’ tennis coach say this, that in tennis, the, the, the three best tennis players in the world only won 55% of their points.

John Young (21:57):

Yeah. I mean, that’s another one. Like Roger Feder just retired. Right? Like he did not win every single time he played, but he won 50% of it.

Brian Friend (22:06):

No, they win. They win the big, they win the big points. They win in the big moments. That’s when.

John Young (22:13):

Right, right.

Brian Friend (22:13):

Yeah. And that’s a, that’s the margins. And that’s how it is in golf. And in dis golf. It’s when the pressure’s the highest in your backyard, in your practice rounds? My, my friends send me these pictures all the time. Oh, I have 15 under today. Look at all these birdies ahead. But then I go to playing the tournament and they’re shooting two over par is the pressure just affects people differently.

Sevan Matossian (22:32):

Well, the pressure definitely affected Hiller last night. He rose to it.

Brian Friend (22:36):


Sevan Matossian (22:39):

John’s like, didn’t I just tell you didn’t I just tell you I did it

Brian Friend (22:42):

In his garage. Yeah. Let’s see what happens when the pressure’s really on. And he has to be the, uh, head judge at the Zs games. And there’s a, a contentious dispute.

John Young (22:50):

I’ll tell you what, once, once Hiller is done with this cycle, we should do an Olympic lifting, meet me and him. And we’ll see who wins.

Sevan Matossian (22:57):

Oh yeah. That’d be good. How old are you?

John Young (22:59):

I’m 28.

Sevan Matossian (23:00):

Okay. You guys are about the same age.

John Young (23:01):

I think just, no, no, no. Uh, no peds. So 28, no peds versus whatever Hiller is after the cycle.

Sevan Matossian (23:11):

Yeah. Yeah. I like it. And then you could just be the whole time, just every lift. You could just be like, you’re a cheater just under your breath. So not just loud enough. So he

John Young (23:20):

Just make it cheat. I, I applaud what he is doing. I mean, he’s, uh, it’s up

Sevan Matossian (23:26):

Front. Me too. Is Tia the fittest in history. This is question number one. Will a seventh change that or not. I, I wanna say that, like, this isn’t even a debate.

Brian Friend (23:41):

Well then why don’t you go first seven?

Sevan Matossian (23:44):

Uh, I think that the athletes today are the more fitter than any of the other athletes. So, um, that puts them, you know, already, um, a notch ahead of all the, all the old timers.

John Young (23:58):

And she is the fittest woman in history

Sevan Matossian (24:00):

And she has the most wins. The, and it’s a very competitive class. I think

John Young (24:06):

You think Tia is fitter than Mattson.

Sevan Matossian (24:09):


John Young (24:11):

I don’t

Sevan Matossian (24:13):


John Young (24:15):

So I think Tia Tia’s probably will go. She’s the most accomplished in history. Uh, but I don’t think that makes her fitter if we’re just talking about peak fitness and I mean, you can go the, the female male route if you want to, but I’m just looking at dominance and Matt’s the only person who has had multiple 200 point win margins. If you don’t count 2020, if you do count 2020, he was 5 45 ahead of the next person. Tia was 360 way more dominant. And so if you talk about peak fitness do dominance. Matt is better than everybody, and it’s really not close. It’s kind of like Michael Jordan, LeBron, like Michael Jordan’s peak was higher compared to the rest of the field than everybody even over LeBron. Now the other point would be longevity, which is the point that you can argue. But like rich is probably the fittest, if you will think longevity counts. Um, but I’m thinking like at any point, who is the fittest person we’ve ever seen ever in all history. And that was probably Matt in 2020.

Sevan Matossian (25:31):

Wow. You convinced me, you convinced me. Longevity goes to rich and, uh, also, yeah. Wow.

John Young (25:39):

Also, also Brian has made a point about this and I think it is, is per if we believe, and I do that, CrossFit is the best methodology for fitness, even general public or whatever. You know, the CrossFit games are kind of our, who, what can we make Batman look like? But if we believe CrossFit makes the fittest people, Matt wins all the CrossFit events, the events that he wins are CrossFit events. The events that Tia wins are usually specialty events. I Tia is you could argue she’s the most

Sevan Matossian (26:11):

Athletic. Is that true? What he’s saying, Brian, is that

Brian Friend (26:13):

True? Let me tell you the, uh, Tia’s event wins historically ocean swim specialty event, suicide sprint specialty event, run, swim, run specialty event, muscle clean ladder. It’s basically a lifting event. CrossFit total lifting event, Madison trip plus swimming event. First cut that’s CrossFit event, split triplet CrossFit event, clean weight, lifting, swim, paddle, swimming standard. That’s a CrossFit event. So you see a pattern. She

Sevan Matossian (26:36):

Is leading. How’d she doing the, um, how’d she do in the capital?

Brian Friend (26:40):

Uh, I think she was in fifth or something like that.

Sevan Matossian (26:43):

Is that a CrossFit in that?

John Young (26:45):

Yeah, of course. I mean, it’s, it’s more endurance, but yeah. And like, she’s still very good at those, but as far as what she’s better than everybody third

Brian Friend (26:53):

On the capital

John Young (26:53):

It’s, it’s usually not the CrossFit events. And if we do believe that CrossFit is the fittest methodology, Matt went Matt’s wins are always CrossFit events typically. Um, which makes like that just leads to my family. Matt, Matt. No, no, no. I’m saying typically

Brian Friend (27:12):

He has,

John Young (27:13):

He’s got some specialty ones too, but

Brian Friend (27:15):

Early in his career over at SWAT was his first ranch trail. One was his third, but he also won triangle. Couple it in 2015, which is clearly CrossFit event, 2017, he wins triple G chipper. The clean ladder muscle have clean ladder, which is probably a size weightlifting, but he also wins 17 heavy 17.5 2 2, 2, 3 Fibe Nachi ans and first cut second cut, split, triplet ringer, two standard, all which are CrossFit, you know, events, top couplets, triplets chips, et cetera. And then you get, you know, you have to have a different conversation about the 20, 20 year, he won a total of 14 events. He would a total of 13 events that year, those alone, that year alone. Yeah. You can compare them to each other, but out, you know, but you have to take that year in isolation, as we’ve talked about previously Seon, where if we did a similar sample size from Rich’s year, that he might have won seven to nine events in that format as well.

John Young (28:09):

Right? Yeah.

Brian Friend (28:10):

And that’s in stage two. We’re not even talking about stage one, which is online.

John Young (28:15):

Yeah. All that makes me think Matt is the fittest and if you don’t think so, go watch his friendly Fran and nobody else can do that in the world that way he just did. And it’s

Sevan Matossian (28:23):

It’s and, and what’d he do? What’d he do

John Young (28:25):

He beat everybody by a minute in a four minute workout.

Sevan Matossian (28:29):

<laugh> yeah. Um, so I almost feel like with your argument, which I’m, I’m really buying is that, um, no one can catch him.

John Young (28:39):

I, I just, we haven’t seen it yet in my opinion.

Sevan Matossian (28:43):

Well, but the Tia could never catch him cuz she’s probably at the end of her career.

John Young (28:47):

I, I would, in my opinion,

Sevan Matossian (28:48):

Yes, she could catch rich, but she can’t catch Matt.

Brian Friend (28:51):

The craziest thing to me, the craziest thing about that friendly Fran workout is something that few people that I’ve heard of, maybe no one has talked about, cuz everyone always just puts it in context of what he did to the rest of the men’s field. But pretty, this is now a very, uh, well understood principle. If you have a workout that has 35 pound dumbbells compared to 50 pound dumbbells or a hundred pound sandbag compared to one 50 or a bar bell that’s 65, 95 or 95, 1 35, the women are better. They will win those workouts. If you compare them directly to the men, 99% of the time, these days Fraser still beat Tia by 32 seconds in a workout that featured a similarly, a 70% barbell basically. But she was still better than the next best guy, but he was still, that’s only, that’s basically three minutes compared to three

John Young (29:40):

30. We’ll just say, what

Sevan Matossian (29:42):

Was the workout? What was friendly? Fran? What

John Young (29:44):

Was workout 21 thrusters with one 15 for the men what’s to wait for the women Brian 85, 5 probably um, 21 chest bar. It’s three rounds of that. So 21 21, 21, 21 21.

Sevan Matossian (29:56):

So Fran heavier and chest bar.

John Young (29:58):


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