#554 – Dr. Trevor Kashey Pt. 2

Sevan Matossian (00:00):

Normally I say, bam we’re live, but I’m gonna switch to quiet on the set. Yeah, action.

Trevor Kashey (00:05):

That really just reminds me of a Chris Farley, I think in, um, the Adam Sandler movie shoot, uh, Billy Madison or something like that, where he goes, no yelling on the bus.

Sevan Matossian (00:17):

I always thought you were really, really smart, but since you’re quoting movies and that’s what athletes do all the time now, I think you’re really smart and an athlete

Trevor Kashey (00:27):

At one time I could lift heavy things over my head

Sevan Matossian (00:30):

And now,

Trevor Kashey (00:31):

And, and pick them up off the ground.

Sevan Matossian (00:33):

And now,

Trevor Kashey (00:35):

Uh, I’d still probably do. Okay.

Sevan Matossian (00:39):

All right.

Trevor Kashey (00:40):


Sevan Matossian (00:41):

Do, do you, do you have a favorite method? Do you have a favorite lift in the gym? Do you have a favorite? Uh, well more specifically, do you have a favorite, uh, lift from ground to overhead? Are you, are you a, are you a sandbag strong man type or are you a Olympic lifter? Uh, clean and jerk snatch type

Trevor Kashey (00:58):

At one point, at one point I had a, an immature American log record.

Sevan Matossian (01:04):

Wow. Wow.

Trevor Kashey (01:08):

I had, yeah, so I I’ve hit, I hit like a

Sevan Matossian (01:11):

Strongman shit. Right. That’s the one we put your hands in the holes and like,

Trevor Kashey (01:14):

Yeah, like

Sevan Matossian (01:15):


Trevor Kashey (01:16):

That big, crazy looking tube

Sevan Matossian (01:18):

<laugh> yeah,

Trevor Kashey (01:20):

Yeah. Hit the, the mid threes. I think it hit like a 3 47 or something like that. Cuz the weight of the log, uh, grounded, overhead,

Sevan Matossian (01:28):

Uh, PhD in, um, biochemistry. Did you view yourself as a laboratory or do you view yourself as a laboratory your own?

Trevor Kashey (01:38):

Uh, at what point? Almost exclusively. Yes. <laugh>

Sevan Matossian (01:41):

At what, and as you get older, you have, uh, you, you, you view yourself more as a, just a subject to sustain some Ari dish to sustain themselves as opposed to one to experiment on.

Trevor Kashey (01:52):

Excellent question. I, I realize quickly that, uh, when you try and run experiments on yourself, you get severely limited on how many you can run.

Sevan Matossian (01:59):


Trevor Kashey (01:59):

And, uh, what, what you run them for and how useful you can make them for other people. And okay. It, the, as, as other people started to take higher priority in my life, experimenting on myself, turned into a smaller and smaller priority.

Sevan Matossian (02:21):

Um, something as simple as like a change in your diet would make you moody and less lovable from your wife and kids.

Trevor Kashey (02:28):

Uh, well you could, you could take the full gamut from staying up three days in a row to trying a bunch of drugs to doing this sort of exercise training regimen to any, any number of things you name it. I’ve probably tried it or tried to integrate it in some sort of ergonomic and or ergogenic way in particular. I tend to shy away from stuff that makes you dumber or try

Sevan Matossian (02:54):

To, uh, say that again. Ergen weight. What’s that mean? Like

Trevor Kashey (02:57):

Ergogenic, like, like increases your performance.

Sevan Matossian (03:00):

Okay. Uh, I don’t want you to be surprised where I’m about to show you, but there’s a guy back here. Did you see him?

Trevor Kashey (03:09):

Yes. Mr. Beaver. Apparently.

Sevan Matossian (03:11):

Yes, Mr. Exactly. It is C beaver and if you start swinging big words around like Egen, he will like look them up and definitions will pop up on the screen and we will get to the bottom of any squirly shit. You try

Trevor Kashey (03:22):

To pull up. I love it. Hopefully it corrects me and I get something wrong.

Sevan Matossian (03:26):

See, there’s one right there. Uh, intended to enhance physical performance. I believe that’s exactly what you said. Stamina and recovery. Uh Cashy what inspired? I, I did a little, um, I can’t remember who it was if it was Michaelo or DaVinci or one of those guys, or maybe it was Dolly, but one of those guys in a previous life, when I was, was into drawing, I think he experimented where he would sleep every 15 minutes for four hours. Do, do you, do you know what I’m referencing my chance and he tried to sustain that.

Trevor Kashey (03:59):

Uh, so

Sevan Matossian (04:00):

I, I, and when you say that, it sounds like, Hey, that’s no big deal until you start doing the math. You’re like, oh shit. That’s only like an hour and 15 minutes of sleep

Trevor Kashey (04:07):

In the day. Yeah. I, I want to say that I agree with somebody like DaVinci pulling off a polyphasic sleep schedule.

Sevan Matossian (04:13):

Polyphasic we go? Uh, and it, do you remember who you were in, in SP uh, for DaVinci’s possible adoption of this pro process? Claudias Stampy writes in this 1992 book, why we nap one of his secrets or so it has been claimed was a unique sleep formula. He would sleep 15 minutes, every four hours for a daily, total of 1.5 hours, like fucking nuts.

Trevor Kashey (04:38):

So I could see something like that happening for like a few weeks. Uh, like at the end of my doctoral degree, when I just had a lot of stupid stuff going on at the same time, I think maybe like the last six weeks I actually slept like every other day.

Sevan Matossian (04:53):

Wow. But not as an experiment, but at a out of just sort of an assess crunch time.

Trevor Kashey (04:57):

Yeah. Yeah. Just like I had a lot of things to grade. I had a lot of experiments to run. I had just done America’s strongest man record breakers things. So I could put training to the side and I just had a big pile of stimulants and I guess the opposite of muscled my way through <laugh> until, uh, I got those things completed. I, I exaggerate was six weeks, probably closer to three. I actually met my now wife during that phase. She

Sevan Matossian (05:26):


Trevor Kashey (05:27):


Sevan Matossian (05:27):

I, I, you were sleeping on a park bench and she was, she was the pigeon,

Trevor Kashey (05:31):

Something like that. Yes. I, I re actually she remembers meeting me and I hardly remember meeting her at all. So it turns into a really silly story that she ends up telling, cuz like she got me on 40 plus hours of zero sleep. <laugh>

Sevan Matossian (05:47):

She, she, she saw the, the wounded gazelle and the

Trevor Kashey (05:51):

Attack Hawaiian shirt just full on Bush beard. Yeah.

Sevan Matossian (05:56):

Those of you who don’t subscribe to Dr. Trevor cashey on YouTube are missing out. Here’s why he puts out a video. He puts out content nearly every day. It’s super duper, easy to consume. And it’s valuable in two ways. He transmits information, but we live in an era where, um, people don’t know how to think logically they don’t understand, uh, things like, um, Correl correlation besides versus fact, or they don’t know how to do proper, uh, risk assessment or they don’t understand. They don’t put things in, in and relativity or contextualize. And one of the thing, if you go through any of these videos, they’ll hit you on all these different levels. So you may not care on whether smoking really does cause cancer or not. But in his, one of his videos, he may slip in there that 1% of all the people in the world, and I’m just making this up.

Sevan Matossian (06:55):

I don’t know if I have the numbers exactly right. Get lung cancer. And yet it’s 2% of all the people who smoke, who get lung cancer. And so all of a sudden there, you’re getting a lesson on relativity and, and, and things that are contextualized. And if you listen very carefully, you’ll hear him, um, explore the difference between absolute statistics and relative statistics or relative numbers. And so people think the doctors would tell you, well, then you have a hundred percent more chance of getting cancer if you smoke, but that’s only relative to that 1% and they never tell you that shit. And those are the types of things that, um, Greg Glassman, the founder of CrossFit would talk about ad nauseam and, and they’re so easy. Could you pull up his YouTube page? Uh, Mr. Beaver? Um, it is, this is such a great website. How, how are you doing this by the way? You, there’s no way you’re editing these, right?

Trevor Kashey (07:43):

No, no. In the last few weeks, uh, I started working with Warren Scott Simpson at graffiti media and he has turned into a tremendous help with helping Coate and give ideas and edit and put up and, and overall manage the channel that just started, you know, a couple of weeks ago in earnest. In any case,

Sevan Matossian (08:04):

Uh, Warren Scott Simpson. He has three names. No.

Trevor Kashey (08:06):

So one, one Scott Simpson, sorry, graffiti media.

Sevan Matossian (08:12):

Um, it is, uh, and, and does he, when he makes these videos, does he tell you ahead of time? Hey, um, does he find a VI like, like the lady with her giant boobs pushed up, does he say, does he also say, Hey, can you talk about this? Does he, does he come up with ideas on that level? Or does he, you say, Hey, I’m gonna address the, what this lady’s saying, and then you edit it, make it cool.

Trevor Kashey (08:34):

Excellent question. So in, in the early days of our tenure, which I still exist in <laugh>, um, I, I lean on him and his team heavily for creative ideas as far as like, where do I narrow the scope of the content I make? Because I, I, I have some deficiencies there to, as far as like, what do I make a video on? What matters more? And his team really does a, does a, does a very good job at determining like this sort of video makes the most sense at this time, given the sort of stuff you talk about. So he gives a general direction on where to go. And then, uh, he gives me constraints and then I try and work within those constraints to maintain, maintain some level of creativity. And then we, we maintain some tension. As you know, I have such, you know, amateurish sort of skills right now.

Trevor Kashey (09:27):

I lean on him a little more for the creative part. Although over as time goes on, uh, he will have looser and looser constraints and I, I will give myself more and more autonomy as far as what to, what to make the content on. And in the context of like the, the boobs pushed up video, I got a generic recommendation and then a TikTok user on my team actually scours, TikTok and says, Hey, why don’t you look at this? So that turned into a full blown team effort, those sorts of those sorts of videos, where I do commentary on, on other people, giving advice, et cetera, uh, graffiti will give the suggestion of, Hey, make some comments on other people, giving advice. And then a person like a TikTok user on our team will then scour, TikTok and find a, a large group of videos for me to respond to. And some of them essentially make the cut.

Sevan Matossian (10:18):

There are a few other people who do, who are doing that, who are really big in the field. And, um, they are in the gentleness terms, fucking assholes. They’re like, mean to people when they critique them. Yeah. And they’ve made a, they’ve made, they have a huge following doing that.

Trevor Kashey (10:37):


Sevan Matossian (10:38):

You don’t do that. Is that hard to do? Is that hard to do? Like when you’re like, you’re actually like, when someone’s like, um, yes, you just eat celery for 15 days. You’re like, you’re not like, Hey, dip shit. That won’t work. You’re like, well, let’s talk about that. And like, you actually like explore what it would happen to you if you eat celery for 15 days and you’re actually, um, you have fun with it. It did. Did you, do you have, is this someone like, Hey, don’t be a Dick that, that role’s already taken. Dr. Cashy

Trevor Kashey (11:03):

<laugh> so we, we actually had an interesting conversation about this because the, the sort of I’ll just call it polarizing content. It doesn’t get a little bit more attention. Yes. And it,

Sevan Matossian (11:13):

It, the boobs work though, the only reason why I watched a lot of your content, but I watched that one for the boobs. I will tell you,

Trevor Kashey (11:19):

Uh, fair, fair enough. And I, and I do get a little excited there. I do like to, to get excited during the videos. Sometimes I sing and dance and yell, although you do, I, I do it and focus on more of the Inna things rather than the, the more pedantic stuff. So I care more about the big picture and, uh, I, I have really have very little desire to, to talk shit really much at all. I have generic concerns. Like if this looks dangerous, I might say, this looks dangerous. Although I, I give due respect in so far as I, I assess the language and the behavior more than more than I assess the person <laugh>. So if somebody says

Sevan Matossian (12:01):


Trevor Kashey (12:01):

Concerning, I’d say, this is a concern versus this person causes problems. <laugh>

Sevan Matossian (12:06):

Right. I worked at a home for disabled adults for five years. I started working there low man on the totem pole, uh, making $7 an hour, finished, running the place with 20 people working for me, but stayed barefoot the entire five years. And that was the training I received. That was the most legitimate training I received. Address behaviors, not the people.

Trevor Kashey (12:27):

Yeah. Yeah. And I considered a, a, probably the, the defining at least the way I, I define it, the defining feature of respect to me, respect, respect means separating the person from, from the behavior. And so if you wanna talk about self respect, same thing, it means that I assess, I assess the outcome instead of assessing the person.

Sevan Matossian (12:50):

That’s the origin of all my, um, fights with my wife when we fight it’s because we’re talking and there’s miscommunication. And I get mad at her instead of staying focused on the communication,

Trevor Kashey (13:00):

Real easy to do, uh, some dorks might call it stimulus generalization, if you want to shoot that into your Google. And the way that that language sort of gets loaded, the, the economy of language sort of dictates that we lump things together. And even though it saves energy for you right now, it ends up layering sort of, uh, irritation and problems in even in the short term. Although definitely in the long term

Sevan Matossian (13:30):

Stimulus generalization is the ability to behave in a new situation in a way that has been learned in other similar situations. The problem is how to learn which aspects of the learning situation should be generalized.

Sevan Matossian (13:44):

Wow. I learned one the other day. Um, I had a guy on, uh, Dale cran, brilliant guy. He’s the, he led the class action suit, uh, against the United States military when they were forcing the, uh, are brave, uh, men and women who are soldiers of the us government’s, uh, military to, uh, take the anthrax vaccine. And now he’s doing a class action shoot, uh, to help the guys who are being forced to take the COVID vaccine. And he taught me the word edification, but I can’t remember what it means, but I was saying something. He goes, oh, you’re that you’re talking about edification. Do you know what that word means? Cashy

Trevor Kashey (14:16):

So something to the effect of like, you use it to bolster something else, typically in the context of something academic, although you can make it, you can generalize it, uh, to other things as well. So if I, I could, I could Edify you for instance, uh, by,

Sevan Matossian (14:36):

Oh, wait, that’s not the, I don’t think that’s the right word. Maybe I’m saying the word wrong shit. And by the way, those of you who think it’s fun coming on this podcast, imagine Dr. Cashy just wakes up and I’m and I’m, and I’m harassing his intellect already. 7:12 AM.

Trevor Kashey (14:50):

<laugh>. Oh, I love it. Thank you so much for having me on, by the way,

Sevan Matossian (14:54):

Dude. You’re awesome. You are, you are a, uh, an incredible resource, uh, for humanity and it, and it’s only, it’s only growing.

Trevor Kashey (15:04):

That means a lot, man. That means a lot. Uh, when I saw the, the title you had for this video, I saw maybe like a week ago. I think I busted a tear. Uh, I think you labeled it like a damn good friend or something like that. It caught me at the right moment, cuz I think maybe, maybe you saw the, like the Instagram video I put up or I talk about it.

Sevan Matossian (15:23):

I was just yelling at Caleb the yesterday, dude, what the fuck? How about putting little creativity to the fucking titles of these videos and that can you now he heard that and it throws everything. I said out the door, cuz he came up with that title. Well, okay. I was yelling at him for shitty titles and now fucking 10 hours later, you’re saying what a great title it was. Well,

Trevor Kashey (15:42):

It, it affected, it affected me on a personal level, whether it affected anybody else. I think you can determine using other tools. <laugh> although it got me at the right time and you know, a couple of days after I made some other video, uh, getting, getting, essentially getting sick of all the little, well strong word, just seeing a lot of just negativity and trash talking. And these five things will make you depressed. These five things look like how about we talk about what it looks like to have a damn good friend <laugh>

Sevan Matossian (16:09):

Oh, I like that.

Trevor Kashey (16:11):

So it actually, so I, I, he may have referenced a, a short video. I had made discussing the topic

Sevan Matossian (16:17):

You made a video and what it means to be a good friend.

Trevor Kashey (16:19):


Sevan Matossian (16:20):

I haven’t

Trevor Kashey (16:21):

Seen that one. I put a, I put an Instagram short up.

Sevan Matossian (16:25):

Um, I’ll throw something out there. Sure. Uh, lo um, uh, keep setting your friend free, keeping, letting your friend be free in the relationship, meaning you and I have a, a date to go get a cup of coffee and you call me and say, Hey, I can’t make it. And I give you no guilt trip. Oh, no problem, dude. I’m always here for you set them free, but no STR no pressure on the relationship.

Trevor Kashey (16:53):

Do you ask or tell

Sevan Matossian (16:55):


Trevor Kashey (16:57):

Well, tell me why you said that.

Sevan Matossian (17:00):

Tell you why? I said what?

Trevor Kashey (17:02):

Yeah. Why did you bring up the set, your friend free in the relationship thing?

Sevan Matossian (17:06):

Oh, I was just thinking of, uh, five things. Um, so when you said, when you said you made a video about five things that make a good friend, I, I have this friend, Adrian Bosman, and I always loved his friendship because it was so free. It was like, there was never, there’s never any pressure. It’s like, I show up late. I show up early. I show up to his house. It’s just honest. There’s just integrity in it. There’s there’s never any, like, you can cancel there’s there. It’s never like, there’s no pressure

Trevor Kashey (17:33):

Understood. Understood. And, and that, and that definitely classifies that sort of friend. So give me, gimme a second here. Now that I’ve found the maybe miss, maybe Mr. Beaver can find it.

Sevan Matossian (17:47):

Is it it’s on your Instagram?

Trevor Kashey (17:49):

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Let me see here.

Sevan Matossian (17:55):

Where do you live? Where do you live? Dr. Cashier? Are you in Palm Springs?

Trevor Kashey (17:59):

Negative. I live in B cave. See, put this here. I think that, that does it. I live in B cave and uh, so I have a, an Austin. I have an Austin zip code, so I pay all the taxes and get none of the benefits.

Sevan Matossian (18:15):

It BCA is, um, a, a town outside of Austin.

Trevor Kashey (18:18):

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I stuck the, I think I stuck the video in the, yeah. I stuck the video in the chat.

Sevan Matossian (18:25):

When did you? Oh, the chat in the private chat? Yeah. Yeah. When did you, um, when did you move to, um, Austin?

Trevor Kashey (18:31):

Oh, gosh. I wanna say like 20, 19 maybe.

Sevan Matossian (18:36):

Okay. So you were there last time we talked?

Trevor Kashey (18:39):

Yes, sir. Yeah.

Sevan Matossian (18:41):

Wow. You got out early and, and where were, were you in California before?

Trevor Kashey (18:45):

No, <laugh>

Sevan Matossian (18:46):

No. Where were you?

Trevor Kashey (18:47):

I lived in Ohio a few years before that, then Florida, a few years before that, then AZE by John a while before that.

Sevan Matossian (18:53):

Right. And then,

Trevor Kashey (18:54):


Sevan Matossian (18:55):

And you were working with the wrestling team? The, the Olympic wrestling team in observation,

Trevor Kashey (18:58):

Right? Yeah. Quite a few fight sports there, although they most certainly care about wrestlers the most in my experience.

Sevan Matossian (19:04):

Right. Okay. Sorry, beaver. Let’s see, let’s see this. This is gonna be good. I have a video of yours. I can’t wait to show everybody.

Trevor Kashey (19:11):

Oh dear.

Sevan Matossian (19:12):

It’s so good.

Trevor Kashey (19:15):

I’ve ways to know you got a damn good friend their way to say good things about you behind your back. Period. Two opposite to that. They stab you in the front. You got something fishy going on. They bring it up and they do it because they care three. They fool you to get better. Other people cheer you on, but a good friend brings it on. When you meet up, you had better bring something new to the table because they did four. You can talk to them about anything. And you think about what you’ve learned, how to win from it and where to aim next five. When you succeed, they back you and to them, it’s like a win in its own way. Good friends. Get you some Dr. Cashier here with five ways to know you gotta do,

Sevan Matossian (19:57):

Uh, stab you in the front. Uh, say good things behind your back.

Trevor Kashey (20:05):


Sevan Matossian (20:07):

You can talk to ’em about anything. Oh, oh, now I’m out of order. Uh, they bring it every, when they come to the conversation, they bring it, bring something new, bring something fresh. Um, I really like that. What was five? What was five,

Trevor Kashey (20:22):

Five, uh, when, when you do well, yes. They also feel good because you

Sevan Matossian (20:28):

Do well. Yes, yes. Your book’s a number one seller and they’re happy for you. They’re not jealous. Yes,

Trevor Kashey (20:32):

Correct? Yes, yes.

Sevan Matossian (20:35):

Yeah. Having friends that inspire you is cool.

Trevor Kashey (20:38):

Yes. So I take a, I take more of like a Samuel Johnson style approach to friendship, you know, slightly more, slightly more Aristotelian, more in the Samuel Johnson area where he, like, he, he says something to the effect of, uh, a friendship should be in a constant state of repair.

Sevan Matossian (20:55):

Mm. You know, Gandhi said that, uh, you shouldn’t have friends because what friends really are, are people who cause you to compromise your morality.

Trevor Kashey (21:11):

So, funny, funny you say

Sevan Matossian (21:13):

That through, through, through loyalty and, and I’m guilty as fuck of that.

Trevor Kashey (21:16):

Yeah. Funny you say that. I typically give that label to family.

Sevan Matossian (21:19):

Right? Some great videos on that. Some great videos on that. Go

Trevor Kashey (21:22):

On. Yeah. Just people that, that have a license to, to treat you poorly and you feel okay with it because family because blood, whatever. So the, the, the terminological issue matters of if, if you define friend in this way, well then yes, friends would definitely hurt you more than help you. And if you define friend insofar, as they make you better, you have aligned goals. They call you out when you do something silly, uh, and they want you to get better. Those sorts of things. If, if a person effectively forces you to compromises your morality, then that might put them outside of the realm of, of friend. Although you might have a friend Lee relationship with them,

Sevan Matossian (22:00):

Right. There was, um, before, before I was married, it it’s funny how everything changes when you were married, when you get married. Yeah. Um, I didn’t even, I never wanted to get married. I never wanted to have kids. And then, and then I had a kid and, and, and the only, the only time I ever thought about getting married is one time I was in a plane and there was crazy turbulence. And I heard this voice in my head basically say, Hey, you should have married Haley. That, that was my girlfriend at the time of like 20 years. Who’s now my wife. And then finally we had, we had a kid and then, and then when she got pregnant, the second time with twins, I was like, Hey, we should get married in case one of us dies. Um, <laugh> that all, all of our shit just easily goes to the other person.

Trevor Kashey (22:43):


Sevan Matossian (22:44):

And, um, but after we were married, I was so glad we got married, something changed and intangible. I can’t, I can’t explain it. We went and got married in a courthouse. Uh, and, and I’m so freaking happy. We got married.

Trevor Kashey (22:55):

Yes. If, if it, this, this may have particularly large effects on, I guess, entrepreneurial types, because entrepreneurs tend to have issues with commitment where I use commitment in a more technical,

Sevan Matossian (23:11):

I have serious issues with commitment. I feel trapped by it. Yeah. Always have since I’ve been a little kid.

Trevor Kashey (23:14):

Yes. So basically when you actually commit yourself to your wife, for instance, look at all the other options in your life that just vanish mm-hmm <affirmative> and how much now, free energy, cognitive load, whatever you wanna call it, you have to apply

Sevan Matossian (23:26):

To, I like load in there free. I freed up some loads.

Trevor Kashey (23:28):

Yes, correct.

Sevan Matossian (23:29):


Trevor Kashey (23:30):

Absolutely. And I could tell you that for me personally, like, you know, how much energy I freed up when, like I could just start ignoring other women.

Sevan Matossian (23:40):

Yes. <laugh>

Trevor Kashey (23:41):

Yes. Among other things. So

Sevan Matossian (23:43):

Yes, God, I wish you wouldn’t have said that. That’s almost too much for me to handle you’re so, right.

Trevor Kashey (23:48):

Just, just one of, just one of the many benefits of marriage ignoring women.

Sevan Matossian (23:52):

Yes. And he doesn’t mean like ignoring them as, um, people, he means ignoring them as women.

Trevor Kashey (24:00):

Yeah. So the,

Sevan Matossian (24:00):

You can almost address them more as people not kind you can,

Trevor Kashey (24:04):

So I can tell you, I have zero fear of asking for a woman’s phone number now. Right. I just did it yesterday. Right. And she just gave it right up and I went shit, I should have got married way earlier.

Sevan Matossian (24:14):

<laugh> wow. I never, I never thought of it like that. So, so, so then I get married and I’m ecstatic. I’m I’m ecsta. I’m I’m yeah. I’m, I’m ecstatic and I’m free. And in that relationship, I’m swerving off course here. This wasn’t where I was going, but what

Trevor Kashey (24:30):

Of course do we have here, Sivan?

Sevan Matossian (24:32):

Thank you. Um, she spent the last, uh, I don’t know, eight weeks ago she stopped drinking coffee and 30 days ago, she, she AB abstain from alcohol for 30 days. And those are the kinds of relationships I want to be in. I wanna be it’s it’s number, uh, three. You would that she’s bringing it. She’s bringing something new to the table. Yeah. That’s uh, and whether it’s she’s, she’s experimenting and it’s a good, um, she’s not asking me to do it, but it’s a great, uh, what’s that call when you have good, when, uh, example for me? Yeah. Insane example.

Trevor Kashey (25:05):

Yes. Yes. And, and with this person, so close to you, their, their attention affection approval matters. And we learn very early on that sort of doing the sorts of things that if we want attention, affection approval from people doing the things that they do tends to raise the probability of that occurring. And so she ends up turning into a model sort of on purpose and by accident. Right. And it ends up working out really well when you have a friend or a relationship that you want their attention, affection and approval, and you get that by emulating them. And it just so happens. They do healthy, useful, productive things for you to emulate

Sevan Matossian (25:40):

And, and thoughtful too. It goes the other way too. I can remember being, you know, younger and, and, uh, you know, 20 years ago and her wanting to have a cigarette and she would go outside and have it and not tell me so that she wouldn’t be like, Hey, you wanna have a cigarette with me? <laugh> she, she knew it’s not good for you. And she wouldn’t, you know, she, she wouldn’t selfishly. Yeah.

Trevor Kashey (26:01):

Yeah. Great. Does go both ways.

Sevan Matossian (26:03):

There is a video CA uh, Kayla, I put it in the, um, in the private chat, there is a video where you put a stick in the gears and, uh, this is a amazing video because I think it it’s really advanced it. This is, this is so advanced. Basically you’re teaching people in this video how to meditate, or maybe people who already know how to meditate, see that you’re pointing to meditation. Okay. Meditation is the, any, any form of observation. Okay. So it’s, it’s being present of, of me, um, staring at the computer, then being present of, um, me staring at my headphones over there. And then as you cultivate more and more, um, observation, you start becoming aware of awareness and then, um, but, but it can go, the, it can go the other way. Also, I can be aware of my noisy brain.

Trevor Kashey (26:58):

Sure, sure. I’ll take it. So we, we, I, I use different terms, although we agree in principle.

Sevan Matossian (27:03):

Okay. Yes. Um, can you play the video, uh, Caleb, but there’s something you talk about in here that I, I think probably goes over so many people’s heads, but you, you point to the domicile never use that word. I’m trying to show off you point to God’s domicile

Trevor Kashey (27:18):


Sevan Matossian (27:19):

In this. And, uh, and it’s, it’s a, it’s a very tricky place to point to, but please, uh, play Mr. Beaver.

Trevor Kashey (27:29):

I talked about expanding the space between stimulus and response. When you push the pause button on your thoughts, when you’re upset, aboutt how extreme the thoughts are. It is clear. You are aroused or, or stimulated. These are the types of conversations that happen in before you respond, right? So there’s a stimulus. And then this conversation happens however fast before the response. This is the time in the spokes of that cognitive grinder. You inject the logic and re have a resilient response and foster a learnable moment, generally positive outcome.

Sevan Matossian (28:02):

There it is. It’s sorry. I know it’s breaking up that stick is God.

Trevor Kashey (28:08):


Sevan Matossian (28:10):

And, and by that, I mean, I, I drive by, you cut me off and I give you the middle finger. And if you respond, um, uh, with, without awareness, um, with the finger back, um, you have now closed the opportunity to stare into the domicile of

Trevor Kashey (28:30):


Sevan Matossian (28:30):

Understood of, of, of infinity of the unknown call it, whatever you want. So

Trevor Kashey (28:34):

It sounds like you, you, you reference the opportunity cost of impulsive behavior

Sevan Matossian (28:39):

Opportunity. Yes. Yes. Um, how don’t you think that when you make that video, that’s a little advanced, like people don’t even, I’ve never heard it ex even explain the way you explained it. It’s usually explain you, explain it. So practically, I always hear it more like explained like as, um, my

Trevor Kashey (28:58):

God’s domicile.

Sevan Matossian (28:59):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. <laugh>

Trevor Kashey (29:01):

Show me God’s domicile so I can use it to help. Like, so agreed. Ha. So although I, I very much appreciate that God’s domicile metaphor. Yes. How in the ever loving hell does that help anyone?

Sevan Matossian (29:13):

Right. Right.

Trevor Kashey (29:14):

Other than the fact that we agree. Right. And so the, the, the fact that we agree actually distracts from understanding, which I think contributes to a lot of the problems of making these sorts of tools practical.

Sevan Matossian (29:27):

I don’t think that most people even know how to, I, I think that people are just, most people are just being controlled by their thoughts. Anyway, they don’t realize that they have options. Sure. They don’t ha they don’t realize they don’t have to flip the person off. They can, they can separate, they can be aware of that. Des that, one of that as an option for a response.

Trevor Kashey (29:54): Yes. And, and to your point, people only do what they get taught to do. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and sometimes.

The above transcript is generated using AI technology and therefore may contain errors.

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