#470 – Jaguar Heart

Jaguar Heart (00:00):

You say you hear me?

Sevan Matossian (00:02):

Bam. We’re live.

Jaguar Heart (00:04):

Hey, go, man.

Sevan Matossian (00:07):

I always, I always, I always feel, um, I don’t, I don’t know if, uh, in inauthentic too, too strong, too strong. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but I always like the first words that we say to each other, the actual people who are watching to hear them too.

Jaguar Heart (00:20):


Sevan Matossian (00:21):

<affirmative>, that’s why I don’t say live and it feels like bam, we’re live. Here we go.

Jaguar Heart (00:25):

<laugh> cool. Yeah. I’m like how you going mate? Which is very Aussie.

Sevan Matossian (00:29):

<laugh>. Oh, where are you?

Jaguar Heart (00:31):

I’m in Byron bay, Australia.

Sevan Matossian (00:33):

Um, are, do you do time in California?

Jaguar Heart (00:36):

Um, have I been there?

Sevan Matossian (00:38):

No, but do you have a home here or something or do you, do you do any time here?

Jaguar Heart (00:42):

No. No, none at all.

Sevan Matossian (00:44):

Okay. Okay. Uh, the reason why I asked is because, um, I watched the two podcasts you did with those cats, um, the, um, speak, the truth or, or something podcast

Jaguar Heart (00:53):

And, uh, here for the truth. Yeah. Here

Sevan Matossian (00:55):

For the truth. And, and, and are those guys in the states

Jaguar Heart (00:58):

One guy’s here in new south Wales where I am and urras MOS he’s in Canada, I think.

Sevan Matossian (01:04):

Oh shit. No shit.

Jaguar Heart (01:06):


Sevan Matossian (01:06):

That’s like home for him.

Jaguar Heart (01:08):

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I think he he’s still there.

Sevan Matossian (01:13):

How did you meet those guys?

Jaguar Heart (01:15):

Um, those guys found me on Instagram and then I was the first guest on their podcast. Yeah. Um, and Joel, who’s one of the guys, one of the hosts on there, we’ve done some work together and we’re in sort of the same, not circles here, but same sort of group, you know, the ones that are, you know, awakened, so to speak. I don’t really like that term, but, um, we’re in the same circles, you know, and I’ve seen the stuff you posted were, you know, aligned on that level. So we were fairly outspoken here in Australia over a year ago. Uh, even 18 months ago, uh, around all this stuff that was going on. So yeah, that’s how we connected.

Sevan Matossian (01:50):

Uh, all of a sudden I got a serious popping coming from your mic

Jaguar Heart (01:54):

Is there. I’ll just take headphones out.

Sevan Matossian (01:57):

It just, it just came outta the blue. It was weird. It wasn’t there the first, I don’t know a few sentences. Ah, thank you. Okay.

Jaguar Heart (02:03):

How’s that,

Sevan Matossian (02:04):

As they say in America, the audio is jacked. Thank you. Let’s see. Cool. Oh no, it’s still fucked up. I wonder if it’s, I wonder if it’s your mic or if it’s our connection,

Jaguar Heart (02:16):

Is it, um, I’ll just,

Sevan Matossian (02:19):

Hey, could you just log, could you log out and then re-log back in. Let’s see.

Jaguar Heart (02:23):

Yeah. Cool. I’ll leave. And come back in,

Sevan Matossian (02:25):

Please. Thank you. It’s serious pop. Hey, I’m gonna have to ask you to, I wonder, is that, is that like equivalent to like, Hey, your shoes are dirty. You gotta go back out. You gotta go outside and, and, and dust your shoes off. Uh, excuse me. He walked into my house with muddy shoes and now you have to come back in. No, it’s not that bad. It’s not his fault. It’s not his, uh, it’s not his doing, I, we had this with one other guest. I’m trying to remember who it was and they had to log in and out like five times before we got it right. Give you a thousand dollars for anyone who can remember who that is.

Sevan Matossian (03:00):

Jamie vindicate. Look at my new, my new plan, no plan B shirt. I can’t see it. Bam. So pumped on it. So pumped, no plan B, sign up for the newsletter guys. Uh, go to the Seon. Uh, the Seon podcast.com. Sign up for the newsletter. I think we put out like 20. Oh, you, it was hi. Uh, it was her headphones. You mean his headphones? I don’t know when he unplugged the headphones. It, um, I think we still had an audio problem. Goodnight. Is it that time? Where are you? Where are you? Ya? Are you in India or something?

Jaguar Heart (03:38):

How’s that, that it’s

Sevan Matossian (03:40):

It’s I, I was, I was remembering, we had to guest one time who had to come in and out like five times until we got rid of the pop and I, we never got, I never figured out what the hell the problem was.

Jaguar Heart (03:48):

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I’m happy to do that. So it’s yeah, it’s no issue on my side just as like, I can’t hear any pop from your side. Um, so, okay. Yeah, we’ll just do what we need to do.

Sevan Matossian (03:59):

I, uh, in my DMS, a, a listener said, Hey, you gotta check this guy out. So I cruised over to your Instagram, Jaguar heart. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I spent about three seconds on it and I realized, yep. I don’t even fuck around anymore. I just send over. And part of the reason is, is I, uh, I, I, I almost wanna get the commitment from the guest first and then start doing the research.

Jaguar Heart (04:23):


Sevan Matossian (04:25):

And, and I, and I wanna have people on of, of all of all mindsets and I, and I feel like, but, but man, we, we are, we, we seem so aligned after I slept listened to your last almost too aligned. I’m like, oh my goodness. I mean, even, even, uh, Christian Medi profound, profound impact, uh, on my life, an enormous impact, I actually went to school in Santa Barbara and, uh, his center in, um,

Sevan Matossian (05:01):

I’m at a loss, but, but the town that, the town where he ended up moving to with his brother, when he, when he left India or England, wherever he left from and ended up coming to the United States, um, it’s a, it’s a huge avocado town, just inland from Santa Barbara, California, mm-hmm <affirmative> and, and he has a huge center there. And, you know, what’s fascinating. Why, why did you like him? Who gave you that book by the way? So I’m gonna tell you guys something, this guy knows a lot of stuff. And the, and the most important thing that Jaguar knows is in, in my mind is deep as I can see is that he knows that naming is the origin of all particular things. As Latu said, he knows that words are casting spells. Yeah. And once you know that, uh, you kind of can go anywhere in your brain, except for the places you’re afraid to go. So, uh, so who knows where this conversation’s gonna go, but together we could probably explore some, some pretty interesting dark, dark casses. Okay. How, how did, how did you end up with, uh, and, and sorry if I mischaracterized you, would you say that that’s a true characterization? You, you are aware of these, these word power.

Jaguar Heart (06:03):

Yeah. I mean, words are vibration. Vibration is physics. So this is one of the big things that’s been missed in healing is we look at, you know, YY and depth psychology and things like that. And in masculinity, there’s king warrior, magician lover, which is a book out there, which is pretty big. And we look at the imagery of it, which is very subconscious and appears in the dream state and in our collective unconscious. But we need words to be able to even identify with the lay with the visual language, right? So we can’t label a king or a plant or a cloud or anything, unless we’ve got the word first. So it’s like in the Bible said in the beginning, there was the word, you know, the vibration, the tone of the universe in more of the Vidic philosophies is on, that was the sound of the universe. So vibration is first, what happens is when we speak, that is a vibration. And so what we speak into existence comes from which comes from the origin, which is vibration. So whatever you are going through in the subconscious mind, which automates our thoughts through these programs, which I’ve found through my work, you’re gonna be attracting the same things in again and again and again, because you’re having a conversation with yourself, which is then showing up in the external world via the mechanism of language.

Sevan Matossian (07:17):

Okay. Uh, go back to there. There’s a book called that king warrior magician lover.

Jaguar Heart (07:23):

Yeah. So it’s a book on masculinity and I work a lot in masculinity at the moment, cuz I feel that masculinity is really under attack, uh, in a big, big way and has been since the sixties, since the sexual revolution, which was the attack on the family unit and the feminist movement, which was the attack on masculinity directly. And this book is really good for just basics of masculinity from the stuff I do. It’s not as deep as I like to go. It’s quite surface, but it’s great for men out there that wanna start to understand the archetypes of the king warrior, the magician and the lover. Why I use that.

Sevan Matossian (07:55):

Oh, and the lover, sorry. King warrior. The magician and the lover lover. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So it’s not the magician and the lover are the same person.

Jaguar Heart (08:05):

No. No.

Sevan Matossian (08:06):


Jaguar Heart (08:06):

Okay. So, so they’re archetypes, but why I refer to this as a comparison is because these archetypes, you know, there’s this goddess culture in the priestess culture and all this sort of stuff, that’s more on the feminine side, but the masculine side doesn’t really have an equivalent. Um, and when I look at that, a lot of people buy into these archetypes, these visual archetypes, but what’s really been fundamentally missed is that we need words and language to describe the archetypes in the first place. So language is the precursor to the visual language that we see in the subconscious. And so in the dream area, we’ll see things in visual metaphor, but in the waking state, it’s linguistic, um, direct linguistics that are, that are showing up through words.

Sevan Matossian (08:47):

Wow. And, and what were you saying about the subconscious there too, after you said that later down in, in that first thought you were talking about the subconscious.

Jaguar Heart (08:55):

Yeah. So the subconscious mind, we, we see a lot of people out there, you know, working on limiting beliefs and change your subconscious patterns and reprogram your subconscious. And I don’t agree with any of that beliefs aren’t necessarily true in the first place. You know, it might be like, I’m not pretty enough. I’m not tall enough. I’m not strong enough. I know you do a lot in the CrossFit world. So it’s like, it might be, I’m not strong enough. Well, I mean, relative to what, you know, the beliefs can be challenged fairly easily. So beliefs are usually extensions out of these programs that are in the subconscious, which are founded in a form of negation. This is what cer really spoke to me when he was talking about the mine. The mine is formed in an area of negation. So if I say to you Sivan, don’t think about a red car. Don’t think about a yellow balloon. You know, you start thinking about a red car in a yellow balloon, but you’re not thinking that oh, JAG said, do not think about a red car. You’re probably visualizing a Ferrari. So in these programs, in the subconscious mind, it’ll be like, I’m not enough as one of them or I’m not worthy. Now we can sort of hang out there all day if we want and do. Yep.

Sevan Matossian (10:01):

You’re popping

Jaguar Heart (10:03):


Sevan Matossian (10:03):

Not this kind of popping.

Jaguar Heart (10:05):

Yeah. Yeah. Not popping lock. I’ll try and take out my headphones

Sevan Matossian (10:09):

By the way, which was very masculine. I love fucking popping. God, that was, that was a great,

Jaguar Heart (10:14):

Let me try and take this out and see what sound we can get.

Sevan Matossian (10:17):

Okay. That’s what I told my wife last night.

Jaguar Heart (10:20):

How’s that for you? Can you hear me?

Sevan Matossian (10:22):

Yeah. Still popping. Still popping. I appreciate the attempt please. Sorry. I’m so sorry. I’m not sure if there’s any other way to deal with it at this point. See, this guy knows some shit. Um, the, the time the timing is so perfect. Uh, because I’m reading this, um, this, uh, Bob RO Rotella book champion championship mindset. I highly recommend this book. I’m not even reading it. I’m listening to it. I got it on, uh, apple. Oh no, the mic. I know. Don’t worry. Don’t worry. We’re gonna get through this and we’re gonna learn a lot of shit from the sky. Um, so, okay. So when you say, when you negation mindset, the red Ferrari versus don’t think of the red car go on.

Jaguar Heart (11:07):

Yeah. So that’s what the mind and the ego forms itself and is a form of negation. Okay. So if I’m not enough, that’s the subconscious program. Now the subconscious structure is like, let’s say, you’re sitting in the roof of your house underneath it. And let’s say that the roof is the conscious mind. That’s where thoughts, feelings, behaviors, results, and experience show up underneath. That is the subconscious, which is the normal house in each one of these rooms is a program in the structure, but you’re in the roof and you don’t know that these, these rooms are underneath you. Okay? So like I’m not enough where I’m not worthy sitting there in the subconscious, but it’s gonna give rise to thoughts. Like I’m not enough or be I’m too old. I’m not pretty enough. I’m not tall enough. I’m not strong enough. You I’m not competent enough.

Jaguar Heart (11:54):

And so the ego, which is in the subconscious, which is like the inner child is going to provide mechanisms. So you can’t see these programs underneath it because why it does that is because it wants to survive. It wants to maintain its existence. It wants to be right about its limitations because it’s whole structure is formed in separation. So it wants to keep separate from the soul. And when I was looking into Christian and murder’s work, he talks about negation of the mind. So the way that we counteract this in, you know, personal development is affirmation. Affirmation is just a reaction to a negation, but why it doesn’t get anywhere. Because if I’m riding I’m enough, 500 times what it’s doing, it’s reinforcing the deeper belief that I’m not enough or the deeper program. That I’m not enough because if I really believed I was enough, I wouldn’t have to write it in the first place.

Jaguar Heart (12:40):

Like we’re not getting up every day, writing my name’s Ja, I’m a human being. I’m Sivan. I’m a human being every day, you know, it’s it, you just don’t have that conversation. You know? And so Christian Murray was very profound for me in that when I saw that around negation, that was when I saw it. And I was like, oh my God, everything that we really attract in that we say that we don’t want is because of the world of physics is attracting it in because that’s the conversation that we’re having, that we don’t even know about, which was profound when I saw this. And then I started to investigate each one that I started to look at that was common amongst everyone that I was working with. And also in the investment industry when I worked in that world too,

Sevan Matossian (13:18):

I’m reading this book, uh, Bob Rotella, the championship mindset. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and it’s everything that, um, uh, you just said, and, uh, I’m assuming that’s why you and I are meeting too. It’s all just where I’m at in my life. Yeah. Where I’m at in my thought, the shit that I’m, I’m manifesting. It’s so cool. Uh, when, when those of us who know the mechanisms of the brain and how they work, like you said, it’s pain, it’s painful to see things like people wearing masks, because we know that those masks are telling everyone subconscious, that something is wrong.

Jaguar Heart (13:52):

Yeah. And that’s one of telling programs.

Sevan Matossian (13:55):

They’re not telling everyone, Hey, don’t worry. You’re safe. We’re all wearing masks. They’re saying, oh fuck, something’s wrong. And I tell people this all the time, everything is contagious. When I light up a cigarette, I’m telling everyone around me, it’s okay to smoke. Yeah. I’m telling they’re subconscious. When I walk through the halls at the mall, eating a cotton candy or, or, or when I’m 37 years old and 300 pounds overweight and I’m riding in one of those carts, I’m telling everyone it’s okay.

Jaguar Heart (14:25):


Sevan Matossian (14:26):

I’m telling their subconscious it’s okay to get 300 pounds overweight and riding a cart. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, I’m letting their ego. I’m a, I’m let, and, and, and those are the benefits of the ego. You should have an ego that you can leverage to prevent that bullshit from happening. Right? Yeah. Leverage that ego, right?

Jaguar Heart (14:40):

Yep. Absolutely. The ego’s there to keep us safe. So, and this comes down to a matter of perspective, right? So what’s good for you. And I won’t necessarily be good for someone else. You know, like as an example, the serial killer actually derives pleasure and joy out of exercising power over someone. So their frame of reference is this is actually enjoyable for me now from a moral perspective, as a human being for us, that’s not gonna do anything to us. If anything, it’s gonna repel us, we don’t want harm another amongst other human beings or to inflict pain amongst or onto another human being. But these people that are walking around like that, you know, there’s a lot of virtue signaling. Now, the difference where we get to it is I look at

Sevan Matossian (15:17):

What is that? What is that? I hear that term all the time. And I just go with it. What is that? I

Jaguar Heart (15:22):

Don’t even know. So it’s gaining a sense of self righteousness by following the crowd. You know, it’s, I’m better than you because I’m doing something that’s good for the greater good. So to say,

Sevan Matossian (15:32):

Can you gimme an example of something that I probably do? That’s virtue signaling that. I don’t know

Jaguar Heart (15:37):

If I, if it comes up in the podcast, I’ll let you know.

Sevan Matossian (15:39):

L like may, maybe it’s like, if I go out with my friends and I wanna buy my kid a cookie, but I don’t cuz I want signal now. Cause they’re just trying

Jaguar Heart (15:50):

To be’s as far as you know,

Sevan Matossian (15:52):

I understand. Yeah, I do. I just, I don’t, I don’t see it’s so far away from, I don’t see what, so they really believe that wearing a

Jaguar Heart (16:08):

Is good

Sevan Matossian (16:10):

And therefore they’re a little bit better than me. They’re doing their part

Jaguar Heart (16:14):

A hundred percent. Yeah. Cuz they’re

Sevan Matossian (16:16):

Scared. They don’t realize they don’t. They don’t realize what it’s doing to people subconscious by screaming to the world that’s Hey, there’s something wrong here. A danger. Correct. It would be like, if I walked around like this, right. Everyone be like, fuck.

Jaguar Heart (16:29):

Yeah. So virtue signaling. Right? I’ll give you a good example. My sister’s partner said about getting the jab was like, well, I’m just saving lives. It’s like, what are you talking about? Like it it’s this thing. Isn’t really killing people anyway, that doesn’t have 4,000 comorbidities underneath it. Anyway, healthy person won die from this. So that’s virtue signaling. It’s like, yeah, well I’m out doing my thing. I’m saving lives, but there’s no quantifiable data that you’re actually doing that you’re buying into a narrative in order to make yourself feel better. You know? So when we look at things objectively, it’s like the masks and example, they don’t do anything. Right. And all you gotta do is look at some evidence and go, okay, let’s look at this and break it down. You know, I don’t mind if I’m wrong about something. If I look at it objectively, a lot of people ask me how I stay.

Jaguar Heart (17:14):

So calm when I get a lot of ridicule online, mainly from feminists and I’ll show some of the messages that I get because I’m very well versed in what I talk about. So I’m going into a debate, highly leveraged in my information. And so I don’t need to get emotional about it, right? The minute, if someone starts to get emotional about something, they’re in a state of defensiveness, which means they’re being triggered, which means they’re not in control, which means they’re not confident in that position. So that’s why most people are very reactive when they’re wear the mask. When they’re onto something, cuz they’re fighting for something they don’t really believe in. Does that

Sevan Matossian (17:48):

Make sense? Yeah. You’re pop, you’re popping again. Sorry. Look at Bruce popping. I know. Sorry. Cool. I’m sorry. I’m I apologize. I, I, if this is, if this is your fault, fuck you. If this is my fault. I’m so sorry. Jaguar he’s chill. He seems chill. Doesn’t seem irritated by it doesn’t seem irritated by, well, this would be a great time to bring up abortion. Right? <laugh> uh, it’s kind of like having the truth on your side or, or being able to admit so I’m I’m I’m a hundred percent pro-choice mm-hmm <affirmative> I am a hundred percent, uh, furious with, uh, or, or not furious. I see the ID idiocy and pro-choice people who refuse to admit that it’s killing babies. Yeah. Not, not a single one of them will admit it. It’s like, yo, yo, yo, it’s a horrible thing to do. And then so, so people can’t put me in a box they’re furious. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> cause I make all sorts of com but, but I, I think that it’s, it’s a tough choice, but no one’s um, no one on the left is like, oh my God, the people on the right are so brilliant. I so see their point killing babies is wrong.

Jaguar Heart (18:58):


Sevan Matossian (18:59):

Yeah. Cause it’s, it’s a, like, I want those people to be my neighbors. Yeah. That’s that’s who I wanna live with. Even though I’m pro-choice I want, I I’m happy that these motherfuckers are like, yeah, don’t kill babies. Thank God. There’s people like that.

Jaguar Heart (19:13):

Yeah. And there was a, there was a good post that went around you probably. So I think you might have posted, I can’t remember this guy’s name, Dan Levine or something. And he said, right, we need to make vaccines mandatory. And then it’s like, no, how dare anyone, tell us what we can and can’t do with our body in the next tweet. You know what I mean? It’s like they Gaslight themselves. These guys, you know, they say one thing and then they do, they do the opposite. So there’s a beautiful saying, which you probably would’ve heard by sun zoo, which is never get in the wave of an enemy while he’s destroying himself.

Sevan Matossian (19:39):

Right. And, and that is, um, I, I wanna go down that, I wanna bring you back to your point. You were saying that when you’re debating people, that’s why you can stay so calm or when people are coming at you. The other thing also is, is, um, being humble enough just to be wrong. Yeah. Like someone will be like, how can you be pro-choice it’s against women’s it’s killing babies. And I go, I know I’m a piece of shit. I get it. Mm. Yeah. I fully fucking get it. Yeah. I don’t wanna do it.

Jaguar Heart (20:08):


Sevan Matossian (20:09):

I, I’m not perfect. Sorry.

Jaguar Heart (20:10):

Yeah. And you own it and there’s humility in that, right? Yeah. Because what, what most of the left is doing is they’re using their shame, right? Shame will attract in situations of humiliation and what they shame when we defend it. Men and women operate differently. So when people are triggered with shame and they’re humiliated, people will either attack and defend or suppress and deny. So when we start to hit on this shame button or this humiliation button, we’re going to attack and defend it. So what these people do unconsciously, they take up a social justice issue to feel better about themselves, to mask the fact that there’s a deep sense of shame and humiliation underneath it. So they can attack and defend someone else because then they get to feel righteous and superior, which makes them feel powerful because they’re, it’s an adaptation to them actually feeling powerless. That’s why they get so offended so easily.

Sevan Matossian (20:59):

Does that make sense? Oh, you just, yeah. You just described, you know, you’re almost too smart. You remind me of Paul Saldino

Sevan Matossian (21:07):

<laugh> you’re so you’re so far ahead. Do you ever, uh, you just described the entire black lives matter movement. Yeah. Everything they’ve done is hurt people with melanated skin and they’re the most racist people I’ve ever met. And yet they do it because of some sort of shame. They feel towards colored people, including colored people who feel shame for, I guess being colored me. Yeah. It’s fucking it’s. And, and once you see what’s under the roof in your own house, mm-hmm <affirmative>, you can see what’s under the roof of everyone else’s house, right? Yeah. To an extent. And, and you’re like, oh my goodness, how are they ever gonna see under their roof? What if they wait, cut? And I guess the further they get down the social justice wear path, I guess they’re getting closer to the truth. But at the same time, it’s getting scarier and scarier.

Jaguar Heart (21:50):

Yeah. Well they have to use some kind of identification. Identity feels separation, right? So identity is going to need to hold onto a set of ideas. And then what happens is when that identity gets challenged, it’s going to usually defend itself. So the defense comes in the form of fear. Okay. When it gets challenged, fear generates the anger. Anger says, stay away from me. It’s a boundary setter. And stay away from me, feels the separation, which is reinforced the identity, which is trying to get away from in the first place. And so when we’re in conflict, there’s a conflict loop. It’s like a closed loop electrical system. So the person that has Shane and is the conflict generator will attack and defend. They’ll attract in the person that is the conflict avoidant, which suppresses and denies. And so both of them get to use those mechanisms, suppression and denial to stay away from someone.

Jaguar Heart (22:40):

So they don’t have to open up and be honest, the person that attacks then pushes the person away. So they don’t have to open up and they can stay in the same spot anyway, neither of them go anywhere. Right? So when we see these mechanisms that the human condition generates it, shame brings in situations of humiliation, that humiliation is responded to through suppression or denial or attack and defense, the attack and defense, which is most of the lefts. They get to be angry about something. The Angus says, stay away from me. And then I get to feel self righteous and superior to you, which is a false form of power. Cuz true power is, is the absence of needing to demonstrate any power whatsoever. It’s just been calm and cool and stoic. And then what happens is from that, it’s a compensation to the fact that they’re actually very powerless, cuz a powerful person doesn’t need the validation or to get everyone to call them.

Jaguar Heart (23:30):

ZZA in fucking wallow, Walla, Bing, bang, whatever fucking pronouns you wanna call yourself, right? <laugh> like, you don’t need to force that on someone you just don’t need to. You don’t need to have that conversation. So once we understand these deeper codes of the programs that are running the idea of themselves in the subconscious and why we do things, then we can start to actually move past it. And that’s when, when we get into debate, then we can remain cool, calm and collected because it doesn’t matter. What’s going on around me. Cuz I’m solid in my position.

Sevan Matossian (23:57):

When, when you’re born, you, you are given a name.

Jaguar Heart (24:02):


Sevan Matossian (24:04):

And then you, it it’s like then your whole life, you are trying to make sure that this name, this person exists. And it’s, he’s constantly in flux, right? He’s constantly in a earthquake pieces, falling off identities, coming pieces coming in. You’re Armenian, you’re a Jew, you’re a blue belt. You’re a brown belt. You’ve lost a finger in a chainsaw accident. You’re you have a girlfriend who cheated on you. You have a mom, who’s the most loving mom and you’re this identity’s just in flux. Right. Dad cheated on your mom. Just whatever the fuck is going on. And you’re trying your fucking best to hold this illusion together.

Jaguar Heart (24:42):

Yeah. Fighting for survival.

Sevan Matossian (24:45):

Yeah. Of the, of the ego of the identity of, of the I, whatever we’ll call it then. Um, the, and one of the, and one of the pieces of identity is what you just described this mm-hmm <affirmative> your identity becomes this thing that gets, um, sort of has its identity and discomfort.

Jaguar Heart (25:03):


Sevan Matossian (25:04):

Okay. I and

Jaguar Heart (25:05):


Sevan Matossian (25:06):

Okay. How do those people wake up? And that’s all taking place on the roof.

Jaguar Heart (25:17):


Sevan Matossian (25:18):

How do those

Jaguar Heart (25:19):

Well it’s it’s it’s coming out in the roof. Like when we project onto the world, right. Projection are the parts of us that we shame repress deny and reject. Okay. So whatever we project out into the world, we go looking for it. So there’s this beautiful story that’s like about the seven, seven DE’s right. And they go sit by a river and there’s the de of hell fire. And he sits by the river. I think it’s a Tibetan fable. And he sits by the river and all he sees is he doesn’t see running water. He sees fire. So then the de of winter sits by the river and all he sees is snow and ice. And then the important one is the hungry ghost. The hungry ghost just sees a river of pus and blood. But as the awareness comes around to the gratitude that what he’s seeing in the river is just an extension of himself, the gratitude and the awareness that the river isn’t actually pus and blood it’s water through the expanded awareness of the hungry ghost.

Jaguar Heart (26:10):

Then he starts to see that it’s water. He starts to drink from the river and he starts to become human. Why I use this is because what happens is in the unconscious aspect of our being the subconscious then drives our perception, which our conscious mind projects into the world. And then we go looking and filtering for the very thing to prove ourselves, right. About the thing that we say that we really don’t want underneath that. So as an example, one of the deep programs is I’m not wanted, I’m not wanted generates abandonment. So what happens is we go out into the world and then we don’t honor ourselves, which is a form of self abandonment. So then someone doesn’t leave us. But what will happen is that person will leave us. Cuz they’ll know we’re not authentic because we’re self abandoned anyway. So we’re reinforcing the thing that we say that we don’t want, and this is how we operate. So the people say they want inclusion and they wanna be included in things and they wanna be tolerated, but they’re not including and tolerating the people that say they don’t include and tolerate them.

Sevan Matossian (27:03):

Yeah. Yeah. This, did you see the safe spaces movie with Adam Carol and Dennis Perry?

Jaguar Heart (27:07):

No, I haven’t seen that

Sevan Matossian (27:08):

Yet. No, no safe spaces. Oh my goodness. You have to see it. It’s it’s it’s so good. It’s so healthy. It’s such a, it’s a healthy dialogue. It’s beautiful. Uh you’re you’re popping again. <laugh> okay. <laugh> I’m so sorry, Jaguar. Well, do you want me to say that to him? Do you want me to say that to him? I’ll I’ll I’ll say it to him. Let’s find out because I have a feeling he’s gonna have a, a similar, uh, response that I would have mm-hmm <affirmative> what, what about these people that identify, uh, that, that have their life wrapped up in Christianity? This, this man Sean Sullivan is saying not if you iden your identity is in Christ,

Jaguar Heart (27:55):

It was still an identity, right? And just by virtue of the comment, there’s still some sort of need to be able to project that on to say, no, you’re wrong. It’s still the same thing. It hasn’t that hasn’t actually gone anywhere. You know, the outcome of which they may be loving and accepting. I don’t know the guy. So with all respect, I don’t right. But just even the need to be able to project that out is from a form of identity, right? The only way that we know Christ existed was through a set of books through set of words in books. I’ve never seen him. I’ve never met him. Some people might have had a transcendental experience and he may have come into it. What I see with the word Christ is more about, you know, I mean, if we look at even ancient cultures in Egypt, there’s similar stories around a similar sort of DEI that walk the earth anyway, throughout multiple ancient cultures.

Jaguar Heart (28:38):

So unless I can break apart everything to an objective finite level and say with absolute certainty, that that story is 100% accurate. I just look at it as a projection of the human consciousness in order to derive some sort of deification within. So Christ’s consciousness be loving, be accepting, hold that energy in your heart. Great. But I see it. I just look at words and in that very comment was not, if you identify with Christ, we’re talking about identity. Identity is the ego identity feels separation. That even in that comment, there is a sense of separation there because I haven’t identified with Christ.

Sevan Matossian (29:14):

I tell people who wanna debate the God thing with me that you don’t ever have to debate the God thing.

Jaguar Heart (29:21):


Sevan Matossian (29:21):

There is something you can do. Are you familiar with the mathematician PD? Ouspensky

Jaguar Heart (29:26):

No, I’m not,

Sevan Matossian (29:28):

But, um, you are, you are familiar with Madam Blaske right?

Jaguar Heart (29:31):

Yes. Yeah. The secret doctrine

Sevan Matossian (29:34):

And she, it was her and, um, um, not ger Jeff, but it was her. And um, I forget the guy’s name. Uh, I forget the guy’s name, but they’re the ones who raised Christian Murray to be the second coming. Yeah. Have you read his BI, have you read his biography by Mary Lutons? L L L U I T N. Is

Jaguar Heart (29:52):

That the woman that, uh, lived with him?

Sevan Matossian (29:54):


Jaguar Heart (29:55):

Yeah, no, I haven’t read that yet. It’s on the list. That’s on the list. I.

The above transcript is generated using AI technology and therefore may contain errors.

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