#457 – Dave Castro

Listen now
Sevan Matossian: (00:02)
You muted yourself.

Caleb Beaver: (00:05)
Yeah. Unless you wanna hear these announcements.

Sevan Matossian: (00:07)
Let me tell you, Amanda. That is, that is not the longest. Whereas the longest minute ever, my wife will tell you about the longest two minutes ever. She has to deal with it all the time. The longest is the longest minute ever. Uh, oh, my wife will tell you about the longest two minutes ever. Oh shit. Do I have an echo? Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. How’s that better? Yeah. I’m not letting Dave come on until all of you sign up for my newsletter. That’s not Dave. You’re right’s Caleb.

Caleb Beaver: (00:38)
sorry to this point

Sevan Matossian: (00:42)
At 10:00 AM this morning when I thought we were gonna go on. That was my fault. Um, I was like high as a kite, like it’s at 9 58. You know what I mean? Just like snorted a line of espresso, washed my hands. Like too many times pushed my hair down. Fucking put my eyeliner on.

Caleb Beaver: (01:05)
Did the mustache up a little bit?

Sevan Matossian: (01:07)
Did the mustache? Yeah, I just noticed I walked by the mirror. The mustache has fallen. There’s some like stray hairs falling.

Sevan Matossian: (01:14)
And uh, I realized I, I, I had, I had not confirmed the time with Dave. So where is Dave? I don’t know if Dave’s coming rub one out. No, I did not. Is this the new, better looking TDC to does TC with the haircut click bait? Yes, of course. All the regulars who are here. Uh, thanks for coming. Uh, busy morning, uh, had Andrew Hiller on this morning for the Hiller fit and review. Oh, there’s already money in here. Look at this William leaper. Oh, wow. William leaper. Thank you. Um, we had great show this morning with, uh, Andrew Hiller and then, um, I thought an hour later Dave was coming on and I had screwed up the schedule that does not happen very often, but, um, it’s kind of cool to have a show that’s flexible. I’m sorry if anyone, um, got their schedule, uh, screwed up.

Sevan Matossian: (02:09)
Um, the cool thing about this show is you can take it anywhere with you if you have a phone, um, and you can watch it live and you can watch it from your YouTube. And then, uh, if you wanna watch old shows, you can watch ’em on YouTube, or obviously you can go to apple or the vast majority of our listenership goes to thank you. All of you for all the questions you send in, um, for Dave, you guys sent in a ton of questions. Uh, the most common one, which was fascinating to me, I guess I, I, I was going to be honest. I, um, when I knew he was gonna come on, I was trying to avoid asking him games, questions. I was like, okay, what are some of the things we can talk about? I wanna avoid talking about game stuff and that’s all you guys wanna know about. That’s all you guys wanted to know about in regards to, uh, a few people were like, I’m curious what his relationship with the affiliates is gonna be, but I’d say 90% of the questions are around the games. So there’s a ton of games, questions in here. I hope it doesn’t irritate him. If I do sense, it’s starting to irritate him. I’ll move away from it. The goal isn’t, um, the goal of this podcast is so that he’ll wanna come back again and

Caleb Beaver: (03:18)
Kinda make him feel comfortable.

Sevan Matossian: (03:20)
Yeah. But the problem is the Dave feels comfortable when, you know, he’s, he’s he’s wrestling. So you gotta, I gotta wrestle him a little bit, but then, um, yeah, I agree. I agree. Almost anything. He, he does have a neat brain like that. Almost anything he says is, um,

Caleb Beaver: (03:35)
Interesting.

Sevan Matossian: (03:37)
I agree. Unlike the lady talking in the background where Caleb’s sitting, almost everything she says is not interesting. isn’t that crazy? Nothing interesting comes out of those. What if Dave did the voice for all the airports? Hello? This is Dave Castro.

Caleb Beaver: (03:53)
Hey Morgan. Freeman.

Sevan Matossian: (03:54)
I’m gonna need you to shuttle run to your gate right now, or else you will be sent home. You will be cut and you will not be allowed on the plane. I met Dave in 2007. I met Dave in 2007 for the first time. Uh, we did not, um, hit it off on our first encounter. We had a bumpy first year. Um, it wasn’t until the making of every second counts. About a month, month.

Dave Castro: (04:22)
Did, did you just kick him out?

Sevan Matossian: (04:24)
He kicked himself out.

Dave Castro: (04:25)
Okay. Who was that? He

Sevan Matossian: (04:26)
Saw, he saw Caleb. He runs the back end.

Dave Castro: (04:29)
Got it. Are we live?

Sevan Matossian: (04:31)
Yeah. You wanna thank him for his service?

Dave Castro: (04:33)
Thank you for your service. I don’t see that. I don’t know how

Sevan Matossian: (04:40)
You didn’t do that.

Dave Castro: (04:43)
You saw how long my hair was.

Sevan Matossian: (04:46)
Um, Dave, you, it’s funny. You bring up, start, we start with service. Uh, why are you all? You look kind of sweaty, like disheveled a little bit. What’s up?

Dave Castro: (04:54)
Uh, I am disheveled. I’m not sweaty.

Sevan Matossian: (04:57)
Uh, what were you doing? You were, are you you’re at the ranch? You’re working out or

Dave Castro: (05:01)
I’m at the ranch? Yeah. Not working out.

Sevan Matossian: (05:03)
Oh, what are you doing? Gardening.

Dave Castro: (05:05)
Not gardening.

Sevan Matossian: (05:06)
Shooting.

Dave Castro: (05:08)
Just taking care of some stuff.

Sevan Matossian: (05:09)
All right. Right. No reason to be so secretive. This is an interview. You have to be vulnerable. You have to talk, you have to open up and then that’s how this shit moves forward.

Dave Castro: (05:18)
Thank you.

Sevan Matossian: (05:21)
When, when, um,

Sevan Matossian: (05:25)
When I, when I worked at CrossFit for 15 years and when I was let go, it was kind of like, it was like a shake up, um, in, in my soul, in my being and my identity. Right. Cause I kind of, I viewed myself as an employee of CrossFit. When you were let go, did you, did you trip? Was it, was it, um, uh, anyway, similar to when you left the military, like kind of like your identity took, like, I mean, I don’t know this I’m, I’m projecting this on to you. Like your identity takes a little bit of a tail spin or like, you feel like you’re floating in the clouds for a minute, even if it’s just for a few days or a week.

Dave Castro: (05:57)
Not, no, I didn’t feel that I was surprised. I didn’t see it coming for sure.

Sevan Matossian: (06:02)
Uh, you didn’t, you didn’t see it coming at all? No. No. Which is crazy to me cuz when I think of you, I think of you as like my Nore Adamas friend. Like if I had a question about the future, like what, what you thought about something I would ask you?

Dave Castro: (06:13)
Well, the biggest reason is I hadn’t talked to Eric for over three months. So like to, to think that the first time I talked to him, he’s gonna fire me, uh, when he hadn’t been around for so long, that part, like I wasn’t thinking that it didn’t make sense. And we had a pretty good call right when he stepped away three, three months prior. So our call three months prior had no indicate actually that first call we talked about the future and some other things. So no, I didn’t see it coming. Um,

Sevan Matossian: (06:40)
Wow. That’s a trip. You hadn’t talked to him in three months and then the first time or, or however long two months. And then, and then when, the first time you talked to him, it’s like, Hey Dave, what’s up? Um, we’re moving the company’s moving forward without you literally the first time you talked to him,

Dave Castro: (06:53)
Basically. Yeah.

Sevan Matossian: (06:54)
Wow. That’s that’s, that’s amazing. Okay.

Dave Castro: (06:58)
Um, I don’t think I felt that what you’re talking about, um, what you’re describing partially because, um, you, you know, right away there was a lot of, uh, community support and uh, the sentiment was really not like, um, positive towards the decision, but more supportive of me so that, uh, I kind of, you know, you get caught up in the it’s easy to get caught up in the positivity or to let yourself follow the positive narrative rather than getting sucked into the negative of the moment and the situation.

Sevan Matossian: (07:35)
Um, how about, how about when you left the, uh, military? Did you feel that like a loss of identity a little bit?

Dave Castro: (07:41)
No. I think in the later years I lost, I felt like I lost the identity in the beginning. What I mean by that is, um, as I’ve grown further away from that community, I feel that I want more connection and attachment to it. When I first got out, I didn’t really care. I was ready to be done with it. And, and what I mean by that is I didn’t care. Uh, like it didn’t getting out was the right thing at the time because of my opportunity with CrossFit and the opportunity I had, um, to, to take care of myself and my family financially and professionally, it was a very unique position I was in and I’d been working for CrossFit three years already while I was still active duty. So the decision to get out and actually continue, does that 9 99 go to me or you?

Sevan Matossian: (08:30)
Me, me

Dave Castro: (08:31)
Is everyone seeing that? Or are we the only one seeing

Sevan Matossian: (08:33)
It? Everyone’s seen it? I put it up there to show off.

Dave Castro: (08:36)
Okay, got it. Let’s talk about the split of this call.

Dave Castro: (08:45)
So, um, so one, so two things with my transition out one, I was already working full time for CrossFit for three years while I was in. So it really just turning off an email, stop reporting into the Navy and continued doing the exact same thing I had done for the previous three years. I told someone recently who was like, oh, I was telling another sale Carter on a rug. I don’t know if I’ve even ever told anyone this, um, uh, not told anyone. I told people you probably know, but on a podcast, the 2009 games, I was programming from Afghanistan. And a lot of people don’t realize a seminar. You know that I know, you know that cuz you were around that seminars. I was program, not programming, scheduling and staffing from Afghanistan. And so, um, I had done one last deployment overseas with some friends to kind of just like before I knew I was gonna get out.

Dave Castro: (09:36)
It was actually nine when I got out, not 10, I say 10 often, but it was late nine. Um, I did one last deployment just to kind of know that I was completely done with it at the time and um, got out and, but the transition. So my point is the transition was easy as I’ve years have passed and I’ve grown further from it. I kind of wish I still had a connection. And uh, I’ve often thought, you know, if I wouldn’t have had the CrossFit opportunity, I would’ve stayed in for 20 years. For sure. I’d be retired. I’d retired in the last couple years. But um,

Sevan Matossian: (10:10)
If you were still alive, if you’re still alive,

Dave Castro: (10:12)
I was still alive. True

Sevan Matossian: (10:14)
Dave. I remember, um, not only I remember you, um, doing more than just programming the games, I would speak to you. I don’t know if you recall, I would speak to you a lot. There was something back then. We used Gchat. I don’t even see it anymore on Google. And anytime I say your green dot come up, I would chat you over there. I chatted you fucking a thousand times when you were over there at all hours of the day and night and you would, and you were, you were, you were very, uh, when you were over there,

Dave Castro: (10:40)
Look at that Zomy this is for Dave. No one else

Sevan Matossian: (10:45)
I’ll take $5 to him today. Um, I, um, you were very short those days. You were very abrasive and very short, like if I were to Gchat you and you didn’t wanna talk, you’d be like, don’t chat me. And then I would just wait 12 hours and I would chat you again. And you would, would be, I’d be like, Hey, what’s up? And you, we would talk some work stuff. And then, and then that would be it, you know, we chatted a lot, like every day we chatted while you were deployed, you were working like we would do work while you were deployed.

Dave Castro: (11:12)
Yeah. I don’t like talking about that stuff as you know, but while I was, uh, we, it was busy. I wasn’t there that long, just a couple months, month and a half. Maybe it was a quick trip. Um, we were busy and we were on a night rotation. We’d sleep through the day and work at night. And so that was short. Yeah, for sure. You know, one other thing I remember from that was I was reading good calories, bad calories through that trip.

Sevan Matossian: (11:38)
Oh, who? Uh,

Dave Castro: (11:42)
Cows?

Sevan Matossian: (11:43)
Yeah, Gary tos. Um, good book. You still, you li you, you still live by it?

Dave Castro: (11:47)
Uh, I wouldn’t say I live by it. I would like to revisit it again. I I’d read it again.

Sevan Matossian: (11:54)
Uh, put towards Dave’s haircut fund 20 bucks. So, so, um, the, the impact of leaving the seals, um, was, uh, sort of helped, um, because you already had another identity, you were building it because you’ve been CrossFit for three years. Um, I’m not gonna left you to the hook of what it felt like to be fired, but I want to go back to this one other idea here real quick. You all you said right there that you, um, I, I remember when you came, you wanted to distance yourself from that stuff too. You never wanted to talk about it. Like you were, did never wore camo shit. You never, um, you never did any, any of the seals to shit you stayed away from. Yeah. Basically talking about it, the exact opposite thing, thing that we see a lot of other seals do, but, but then recently I see you not recently in the last five years, I see you like doing fundraisers for like Navy seal foundation, um, being more vocal. Um, you did a, a hero wa recently on your own, which I’d, I’d like to ask you a question about, but what, but what really shocked me is two days ago, you posted a picture of yourself. Um, uh, Caleb, I don’t know if you can pull that up on his Instagram, you posted a picture shelf that kind of fucking blew blew me out of the water. I was. Cause I never see you do anything like that.

Dave Castro: (13:02)
Well, I’ve become more comfortable with like the knowledge of what I did. I still won’t tell stories about it. I still won’t use all the hashtags or nothing in there says, you know anything about any of who those people are or who I am. Obviously, it’s an image of me doing what I used to do, but I, I went to the training, Instagram and, um, Nicole and some of the other team had told me that they had just, um, created the ignite program. And I knew even when I was working with CrossFit, they were working on it. And so I went to the Instagram and I saw that and I’m like, oh, I need to repost this. I need to share it on my account because this is super cool. And like, it hit me. I’m like, oh, I should share it with a photo of myself with some of the army people I’ve worked with.

Dave Castro: (13:46)
And I thought of photos. And I laughed when I thought of that photo. Cause like that’s like two, two and a half years of hair growth there , that’s not insignificant. And uh, and I was active duty Navy. And so like, that’s very unique. Um, so I came across that photo and, um, or I, I thought about that photo and then I decided to put it up there. I sent it to Eric Diaz and said, Hey, um, blur out the faces of everyone else and blur out the patches. Um, actually my patch, you didn’t blur out, which is fine. It’s a Jim Jones patch. So Jim Jones, Mark White, it’s a Mark White patch is, uh, is what my patch is there in the center.

Sevan Matossian: (14:28)
Why blur out, uh, people’s patches? Can you identify them by their patches?

Dave Castro: (14:33)
Maybe not them, but the units potentially. So I just didn’t even want to go there.

Sevan Matossian: (14:38)
Uh, so I’m gonna go off in another direction here. So wait, what’s going on. Tell me about the ignite program. Is this the one where the United States military will pay for people’s L one to take their L one

Dave Castro: (14:49)
At this point, I think it’s only the army active duty army and they will, yes, exactly. That the army ignite will pay for active duty soldiers. So army guys, gals to go through a level one, I think a level two and maybe some other courses, which is super cool.

Sevan Matossian: (15:09)
So, uh, Caleb,

Dave Castro: (15:11)
Someone DMed me last night and said, Hey, this is awesome. I’m getting half of my ODA team to go through this ASAP.

Sevan Matossian: (15:18)
Yeah. Caleb, how many dudes are there? How many dudes and chicks are there in the army? So you’re telling me theoretical

Dave Castro: (15:25)
Four, three, 400,000, roughly three, 400,000.

Sevan Matossian: (15:29)
Why would anyone in the army not do this? This is like the best two days of your life.

Dave Castro: (15:32)
Maybe I’m wrong. Google it. So Caleb Google it. How many people are in the army?

Sevan Matossian: (15:36)
This is crazy. So the United States government has agreed to that.

Dave Castro: (15:41)
Well, here’s the thing. I don’t know. So army ignite, I don’t know if that’s the government. Okay, so that’s close 480. Um, I don’t, it, it might be, I don’t know what it is

Sevan Matossian: (15:53)
Either way. If you’re in the army and you don’t take advantage of this, you’re crazy. Is this easy to do or is this like 37 pages of paperwork? Do you know? Like if you’re in the army, I

Dave Castro: (16:01)
Have no idea. No idea. Oh,

Sevan Matossian: (16:02)
Oh,

Dave Castro: (16:02)
I gotta dive into it.

Sevan Matossian: (16:04)
Okay. But theoretically, if it works, if you’re in the army, you can go take your L one for free. The us government will pay for it.

Dave Castro: (16:09)
Yeah. And the way I read the description, I gotta talk to the seminar team, but it sounds like they’ll also, if you get enough guys, they’ll send a team out to you and do a seminar. So let’s say I’ve heard you guys who will do it

Sevan Matossian: (16:20)
Best use of my tax money. I’ve fucking ever heard best use of my tax money I’ve ever heard going to sending soldiers to their L one. That’s awesome. Um, in, in, in those five months. Um, so, so you, you, did you, when you were released from CrossFit, when you were fired from CrossFit, um, how, how long and, and what, and from your then, and your official start date, how long, how much time elapsed do you know?

Dave Castro: (16:45)
Yeah, I guess like January 4th to a couple weeks ago. Right. So like five months, five and a half months.

Sevan Matossian: (16:52)
Okay. Um, did you, I, I, I noticed that you, um, I don’t wanna say you got closer to the community, but you, you seeped into the community. I would see that you were going to affiliates. You were still talking to people like, um, um, uh, Mr. Rogue bill Henneger I would, I just saw that you, you didn’t, you didn’t run from the community. Like I thought that there may have been a chance you may have done. I, when people said, what’s Dave gonna do part of me thought, oh, he is just gonna pack his family up to Alaska and disappear.

Dave Castro: (17:21)
Uh, yeah. Maybe that, that even crossed my mind, not packing up for Alaska and disappearing, but like kind of just completely, um, extracting from the community pulling out. But it just like, it was, it came through my mind quickly. It just doesn’t make sense. It didn’t make sense, especially with all the sport I had and what I’ve done, been involved in the community for the last 15 years. Um, it, it, you know, part of the community, regardless if I’m working for CrossFit or not, and that’s what I realized quickly. Like I could not work for profi and still be someone in the community.

Sevan Matossian: (17:55)
But, but if I would’ve asked you that, I think before, um, you, or let’s say the week you got fired or a month before you got fired, I said, Hey, imagine you got fired. You wouldn’t have imagined that. Probably what changed, was it an ego thing? Like you let your ego down or, or what changed? What made you realize that like, Hey, even if I’m not gonna be work for HQ, I’m still gonna be a part of the community.

Dave Castro: (18:15)
I, I mean, honestly, I think it was like the massive support that I was receiving from the community, from staff, from trainers, from seminar staff, from affiliates, from members in the community, from athletes, like just across the board, you name a section of our community. There was a large amount of support coming from that section of the community for me. And that was, uh, that, you know, that was, it made me feel, uh, appreciate it and still welcome and wanted in the community

Sevan Matossian: (18:53)
As your friend. I know this. Uh, and, and I, and I

Dave Castro: (18:56)
Let’s, uh, let’s, let’s not, um, let’s not use that term too much anymore. Let’s like,

Sevan Matossian: (19:02)
Okay, okay. As your, as your former colleague and acquaintance, I don’t like to use insider information, but, but, uh, in an interview I like to play just stupid. So, uh, um, everything runs smoothly, but I think it’s fair to say, from what I know of you, that you saw the CrossFit games as your, or like the guy who’s been working on his 57 Chevy in his garage for fucking 27 years, it’s everything fucking to him. You know what I mean?

Dave Castro: (19:33)
I saw it as a child for sure.

Sevan Matossian: (19:35)
He’s showers the earth to looking for that one knob so that he wants to build the 57 Chevy exactly the way it was in 1957. He’s he’s even looking for the exact thread that was used to seeing the scene

Dave Castro: (19:45)
Together. The difference, the difference is the dude didn’t get birth to the fucking 57 Chevy.

Sevan Matossian: (19:49)


Dave Castro: (19:50)
57 Chevy last existed, 30 years before he came around, I literally fucking gave birth to the CrossFit games. Yes. And so, you know, people every year would ask me, which workout was your favorite and as stupid as it sounds, it’s like, Hey, they’re like a child to me. They’re like children. I don’t fucking, I don’t look at them in that way. I don’t say this one’s my favorite. And like, they’re all, they’re all something special to me. And they all, they were a long path to get their games for any given year. Um, so yeah, absolutely. I, I don’t, I don’t that 57 analogy, 57 Chevy analogy doesn’t resonate, but more like, um, a child or something I raised is more appropriate. Cuz I saw it from its infancy when it was nothing to, uh, what it was up until now.

Sevan Matossian: (20:38)
So you have the, uh, this guy definitely is giving the money to me.

Dave Castro: (20:44)
thank you. Allon for the kind words.

Sevan Matossian: (20:48)
Um, so when you have that taken from you, um, you have to be tripping, right? Because you can’t take any of it with you. You must have been tripping. And, and I wanna tie that in with, did you think, did, was there ever a point where you thought that you were gone 100%? Like what? Like you’re like, oh shit, I’m gone. Like, did you ever accept it and surrender to the fact you were gone? Or are you like, like me, I’m still kicking and streaming at the front doors. Like, were you ever, were you delusional ever like, okay, there’s a 1% chance I’ll be back. Like, did you keep the dream alive or very, and now, and, and now that you know, your kid can be taken from you, is your relationship with a different man? What a fucking mess. Sorry, go on

Dave Castro: (21:36)
Very quickly. I knew there was a chance I could be back.

Sevan Matossian: (21:45)
You did? Yeah. Uh, oh, so like you had a clue.

Dave Castro: (21:52)
I wouldn’t say it was a clue,

Sevan Matossian: (21:54)
But hope.

Dave Castro: (21:56)
Yeah. Hope’s to find words for that.

Sevan Matossian: (21:57)
Yeah. So, so let, let me ask you this. Did you have insider information or was it like holy shit. There’s 15,000 people in my fucking DMS who are telling me they missed me. I know this is gonna fucking, might change some opinions,

Dave Castro: (22:09)
More like that.

Sevan Matossian: (22:10)
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. You’re like, oh shit. Like you thought the concert was over and they’re outside clamoring for an Encore.

Dave Castro: (22:17)
Yeah.

Sevan Matossian: (22:19)
Talking with my affiliate owner of 16 years. They mentioned that nobody reaches out to them from HQ, but they seem hopeful that Dave was brought back for the new role. I’m definitely glad he is back. I some concerns about,

Dave Castro: (22:28)
Uh, Michael send me, uh, contacted before your affiliate and I’ll reach out to them today.

Sevan Matossian: (22:34)
Is that, uh, where at David CrossFit?

Dave Castro: (22:37)
Uh, for now TDC Castro, ranch.com.

Sevan Matossian: (22:45)
TDC Castro, ranch.com. Correct. So Michael, now the ball’s in your court, buddy. You just, you just thank you for the money, but all you gotta do is send that over to, uh, Dave and he’ll reach out to your affiliate owner. Um, do you think that there’s UN unfulfillable expectations now gonna be put on you? I mean, there’s fucking 10,000 or 15,000, uh, affiliates. And this is a common thread. I’m hearing the vast majority of people who, who reached out to me, let’s say 90%. They wanted to me to ask you about games, but the other 10% are clear, cut and dry. They’re really hopeful of how you’re going to, uh, affect the community and the affiliate owners. Are you up? Are you up for that? What are your thoughts on that?

Dave Castro: (23:26)
Absolutely. Up for it. Uh, super motivated by it, even as, even when I was running the games the last 15 years, you know, this as well as anyone I didn’t ever, even in my mind, put that above the CrossFit games. And, and actually oftentimes the CrossFit games had to be measured in, in significance or importance to the world relative to the affiliates and the training look, the, the affiliates are where all the magic happens. We’re changing lives. There. People are coming into a gym that are 200, 300 pounds and they’re losing 50, 60, 70, a hundred pounds of weight and they’re coming off their meds and they’re changing their lives. And the magic. It’s interesting cuz our superheroes in CrossFit are the athletes and they should be people. They should be, um, inspiration for a lot of people. But the true superheroes, the true fucking superheroes of our community are the coaches are the coaches in the gyms and the affiliate owners who give those coaches, um, the power and ability to change people’s lives.

Dave Castro: (24:28)
Those are the superheroes of our community and uh, they don’t get the credit or the tension they need. And um, I wanna change that. I, I know we’re gonna change it and I wanna help. Uh, I wanna help spread that message and help. Um, let people know that those, those locations are life changers. They are going to make your life and your family’s life much healthier and much better off. Um, if you can just make the commitment to actually cross crossing the threshold, go in, go through the door, cross that threshold and your life will be changed.

Sevan Matossian: (25:10)
Um, can I, can I see the back of your chair? Oh,

Dave Castro: (25:13)
Can

Sevan Matossian: (25:13)
You no, I, I wanted to see the back of your chair. Greg bought me this chair and I was wondering if he bought you one too.

Dave Castro: (25:19)
He didn’t buy me that chair.

Sevan Matossian: (25:21)


Dave Castro: (25:22)
He’s bought me a few things. This chair wasn’t one of ’em

Sevan Matossian: (25:28)
When you were running the games, you yelled at me very aggressively. More than once that there weren’t enough commercials at the games highlighting the affiliates. It was absolutely. It was a constant thing. You were constantly pounding into me. It’s it’s it’s interesting. How much, um, vision and direction you gave, um, the media team around, uh, promoting the affiliates. Yeah, that was, that was always a thing. Hey man, we need commercials promoting the affiliates. We need commercials promoting the affiliates.

Dave Castro: (25:59)
Absolutely.

Sevan Matossian: (26:01)
I, I, I posted, I posted a video the other day of you talking about the importance of, of um, what to be focused on in order for the CrossFit games to grow. And it’s basically, you know, the thing focus I’m paraphrasing, but focus on excellence. Don’t focus on growth, focus on excellence, and then the rest will, will, will fall into play. Do when, when I think of the company now, I don’t think that that’s kind of what they’re doing. I think of them as being owned by, um, being driven by, by profits. And I’m not hating on that. I love money. There’s nothing. There’s nothing. After you have your health, there’s nothing more fun than having a shitload of fucking money. It’s dope. Um, how do you, how do you fit into that? How does someone who comes up from that lineage that we came up with where excellence, excellence, excellence, excellence, and now, and now, or, or do I misunderstand, am I misunderstanding CrossFit?

Dave Castro: (26:50)
I think I disagree with you at this point. I believe they are chasing excellence. Obviously we’re a privately owned company and profits and making money matter, but I do believe in this commitment from the leadership on making things better, making things that we do the best they possibly can be. And focusing on the, um, on the core aspects, CrossFit kind of just like resetting and making sure those things that change people’s lives. The affiliates, the training are, um, are optimized essentially and, and excellence, excellence does matter to them. And I, and I believe them in that. And uh, I’m also going to basically hold ourselves and hold the team accountable to that and make sure that it matters not. Um, and that we’re not just chasing profit, uh, blindly. And that actually there is some meat there. So I want to ask you to, um, watch for that respect that and understand.

Dave Castro: (27:53)
I don’t think they want us to completely sell out and completely just chase money. Um, at all costs, I do believe in them and I’m trusting them gonna work closely with them and we’re going to do these things to kind of re solidify and reestablish that quality and all of those things make a difference and matter to us and, and it matters to them. But also at the end of the day, there are gonna be like, yeah, there’s trying to also make money. And it’s like, you can’t let you, can’t when trying to make money. You just can’t fucking let that be here and quality come down here, but let’s keep quality high. And also let’s try to run a profitable business. There’s nothing wrong. There’s no, um, error in having, um, a perspective where we’re trying to focus on our core, keep quality high and, and make money, you know? Yeah. That’s a, uh, respectable business, right?

Sevan Matossian: (28:57)
Well, I do know that when I worked there, all of our, all of our colleagues deserved everyone deserved to get paid twice as much as they did. And, and, and I don’t like to use that word deserve, but man, people were fucking committed and, and, and I believe that way, it, it bums me out when people say affiliates charge too much for a hundred, 200, 300, $500 a month because I don’t think any affiliate owner or coach should be making less than $250,000 a year. The ones who are out there caring, which is the vast majority of ’em. And I think the vast majority of boxes are amazing. I think, I think if you were to look at the quality of police officers and, and I don’t mean to pick on police officers, quality of school teachers, quality of attorneys and put them up against the quality of, uh, uh, gym, um, owners and gym coaches, uh, the gym coaches and owners, um, dust them, I think cuz because I think most of the people are passionate about their jobs, so okay. We’ll watch that. We’ll watch that. And, and, and I’m, and I’m, and I’m glad to hear you say that. Um, uh, who do, who, who do you report to?

Dave Castro: (29:55)
What I almost said to that question almost said, instead of watch it almost said, trust me, but, and I learned this love from gray and, and it stuck with me, but never fucking don’t take trust me as a response, cuz that’s the most shallow and empty. Like, no, I need more reassurance. Maybe not even reassurance, but I just, uh, trust me is such a shitty thing to say to someone it’s like, let me give you either direction, like watch and that way I’m not asking you to have, like, I’m not, as I’m not putting it on this notion that I’m gonna make it happen and you just have to trust me, uh, whatever,

Sevan Matossian: (30:33)
Hold my beer.

Dave Castro: (30:35)
Yeah.

Sevan Matossian: (30:36)
Um, who, who, who’s your, who do you report directly to?

Dave Castro: (30:40)
Uh, right now Allison

Sevan Matossian: (30:42)
And, and, and, and, and Allison is the CEO.

Dave Castro: (30:45)
Yes.

Sevan Matossian: (30:46)
Okay. So for those of you who don’t know, that’s like a really good sign. That’s like a really, really good sign. So you, so there was that concern I had too, that you were just being brought on for. It was a stunt

Dave Castro: (30:59)
I don’t, um, maybe, okay, so check this out. Maybe there’s some people who want it to be a stunt or some people who think it’s a stunt, not Allison ran leadership. I’m not talking about that. Um, this is not a fucking stunt and I do not view it as a stunt and I am here to, uh, help contribute and help make a difference and help advise and help guide and, uh, reach out and be involved in the community. And like, there is no aspect of, um, the other pieces too, is like, do you know me? Like I’ll create and craft, um, and expand or modify and adjust the role as needed. So I’m not, uh, so it’s not a stunt, but, uh, I have, I have, yeah, it’s not a stunt.

Sevan Matossian: (31:45)
Can, can you please convince my wife to help me and let me open across the Jim?

Dave Castro: (31:49)
Oh bro. That’s your problem. You gotta do that. I’m not getting involved in that,

Sevan Matossian: (31:53)
Uh, or, or send me 50 bucks and I’ll help you. Um, Dave, what’s your opinion? Uh, George, uh, Martinez, uh, Jorge Martinez, uh, results specialist. Um, Hey Dave, what’s your opinion of Andrew Hiller? Um, do you know who that is? Andrew Hiller? The, the guy’s been making all the videos that have been critical of not, he’s been giving feedback on judging and, and

Dave Castro: (32:14)
Yeah, I know of to put it, obviously he came onto the scene this year, uh, in a very vocal way. Uh, what’s my opinion of not much of a, an opinion of his content, cuz I haven’t consumed any of it. I, I don’t look at it of his existence of what he represents. It is 100 fucking percent necessary. And what I mean by is in sporting world and even take a look at Steven, a Smith, the shitty says about athletes or coaches or sports and he’s paid 15, 20 million a year by ESPN to do that. Um, he’s highly critical of people. He’s highly critical of athletes. He’s highly critical of performance. He’s highly critical of raps. All of the best sports commentators are. And this notion that our sport should be absent or free of criticism means we’re not yet a big time sport. so like to, to, to part of the process of being a major sport is criticism criticism of the athletes, criticism of the pro process criticism of the organizers criticism of it all. And so like when people were critical of me, I was like, this is fucking good. This is part of this is it. This is part of sport. There’s gonna be people who love me and there’s gonna be people there’s people who love Dana white there’s people who hate Dana

Sevan Matossian: (33:36)
White, nobody hates Dana white, nobody hates

Dave Castro: (33:38)
It. Ultimately they’re all following and contributing to the sport. So for this sport, which is ultimately when I’ve had these discussions internally for a long time, the entertainment wing of crossfi, the sport is entertainment. That is a hundred percent necessary. Is, is he gonna make people feel uncomfortable? Fuck ya. Does Steven A. Smith make people feel uncomfortable? Fuck ya. Um, it’s fine. Totally fine. And not only is it fine, it’s also necessary. Are there people who don’t want it at all for sure. Cuz they have their ideal, their ideal image of the sport. Their ideal of, of the CrossFit games is this box and it’s their comfort zone and Hillers outside of their ideal. Um, their, your ideal is your ideal. You gotta get used to fucking your, your way of things, not being the only expression of it. So like ha rich. I, I love you brother. Uh, um, anyways, he just threw me on game. The, the, the, those, this

Sevan Matossian: (34:49)
Expression and criticism in Steven, a Smith and it’s like, Hey, we’ve arrived when we have people like Hiller.

Dave Castro: (34:55)
Yeah.

Sevan Matossian: (34:55)
It’s a sign that we’re

Dave Castro: (34:56)
Growing very verbose way. Yes, exactly. Hey, I mean, I got hated on fucking, I got hated on 15 years ago all the way up until now. I still get hated on whatever. It’s just part of it. Um, don’t let, if it bothers you don’t listen to it. Uh, but it’s part of sport. It’s part of the community. So take the entertainment and the sport ring out. I’m not saying that’s the only place that happens. Let’s take it back to affiliates and training and, and the community. That’s such a large, interesting, unique place for people to, uh, come together that getting hated on there even happens. So it’s just life. It’s

Sevan Matossian: (35:37)
No one, no one hates rich.

Dave Castro: (35:39)
So, uh, that’s not true.

Speaker 4: (35:41)


Dave Castro: (35:43)
True. You

Sevan Matossian: (35:43)
Didn’t even miss a beat. You didn’t even miss a beat.

Dave Castro: (35:46)
Um, and so back to Hiller, so it’s super unique. What he’s done again, I think it’s necessary. Uh, is he gonna piss people off? Yes. Um, I, I, I kind of wish I kind of wish Hiller was around during my reign cuz I think he would’ve been fun for me to kinda tangle with. Um, yeah, so that would’ve been entertainment for me.

Sevan Matossian: (36:15)
Um, do you think it’s a mistake that people, um, push, um, people away like that as opposed to sort of lean into it?

Dave Castro: (36:22)
Okay. So push away or lean into um,

Dave Castro: (36:29)
No, I don’t think it’s a mistake that people push him away, cuz there’s gonna be people that he upsets and really fucking pisses off. Those people can push him away, but they have to accept that he’s there to stay. Um, so pushing away or leaning into I just different strategies, really, uh, strategies, how to approach what he’s doing. Uh, really though it’s more of a odd kind of coming from, from this percept perspective of acceptance he’s there. Right? Right. He exists. He’s not going away. One strategy is push him away. Another strategy is bring him in. That’s just a personal approach.

Sevan Matossian: (37:04)
Uh, Eli says I’m coming to the street, parking fitness freedom in a couple weeks. Thanks for opening up the ranch to the community.

Dave Castro: (37:09)
Thanks

Sevan Matossian: (37:09)
For if, if, if, um, if you would’ve still worked at CrossFit, would you still open that up to street parking?

Dave Castro: (37:16)
I think so. Oh no.

Speaker 4: (37:18)


Dave Castro: (37:19)
Fuck. No, no I couldn’t have, if I’ve still worked CrossFit, I’d be programing the games right now. And like July timeframe is like massive testing for me. This whole place would be just fucking in full speed testing mode all up until the games.

Sevan Matossian: (37:34)
So are you, are you mourn? Are you in mourn

Dave Castro: (37:39)
For the game stuff?

Sevan Matossian: (37:41)
Yeah. The, the, the, that the game are you in mourn because your baby is no longer your baby.

Dave Castro: (37:51)
So the way the baby was pooled from my grass was not cool. I do not appreciate that. I had a plan and a vision to eventually let the baby go. That was accelerated. And that was, um, forced on me. I don’t appreciate that. I, I’m not like obviously not ecstatic about how it happened, getting fired. And then, and, and, and, and interestingly, like I didn’t care about getting fired. It’s like, fuck, now I can’t program the games or now I don’t have the games. That part was like, this sucks.

Sevan Matossian: (38:27)
Um, so they should have just taken your paycheck and kept you

Speaker 4: (38:30)


Sevan Matossian: (38:34)
Um, Hey, I bet you would’ve done it.

Dave Castro: (38:37)
Oh, program the game’s not without getting my paycheck. Fuck. Yeah, I would’ve done it.

Sevan Matossian: (38:41)
I know. That’s what I mean. They could have just totally just Ben you over. Okay. Go. So go on. So how so are you in mourn? That’s the question

Dave Castro: (38:48)
I’m not in mourn at this point? No, I, I don’t know if I was ever in mourn. I was just like, okay, well, um, this sucks. That’s where my head was. This sucks. I got the, the games pulled away from the, the, the programming of the games pulled away from me. I had this vision, I was gonna program to 20 years and then I was done. So five more years of programming. And, uh, that’s where like my head was in like coming up to this, even leading to this, uh, for the last year, I’m like, okay, I don’t wanna program them all. I got five more years of programming. I’m gonna make this landmark of 20 years of programming and, uh, or with this personal goal, and then I’m out and now I’m not in, in that mindset. I wasn’t out of CrossFit or wasn’t out of the running of it, but I was just completely out of the programming of it, honestly. And that acceleration process, the way I had modeled it in my mind, would’ve started the would’ve initiated a grooming process. And so, um, in that this year more so 16 and 70, I would’ve started, uh, teaching and bringing someone up to take over the programming, giving them more responsibility. And then the 20 would’ve been the final and then completely turned it over.

Sevan Matossian: (40:05)
Uh, so the grooming would’ve been 2020 2, 23, 24, 25,

Dave Castro: (40:08)
Basically the grooming, the grooming is like, it would’ that this should not, I should not have been fired without that. Having been thought of in terms of, Hey, there should be some grooming transition or some grooming of someone to, to, to take this over because like,

Sevan Matossian: (40:26)
Well, they made that mistake twice over there, Dave, they did that to, there should have been someone to replace you. And there should have been someone to replace Eric Rose almost right away. As we know, when you fire top, when you fire powerful people in the company, there becomes a power vacuum. I don’t mean to attack where you’re you’re home now. But, um, so,

Dave Castro: (40:43)
So why I say the grooming in this aspect was important, cuz there’s so 15 years of experience in 15 years of, um, institutional knowledge call it, uh, that was basically sucked out of programming. I’m not talking about, I’m just talking singularly of programming, the CrossFit games. And that’s what, um, that, that process could have. There should have been a grooming process. I believe

Sevan Matossian: (41:16)
Matt burn Sevan asked Dave if he would work for you, if you were CEO of, I asked Dave that, uh, five or six years ago, I asked him that,

Dave Castro: (41:23)
What was the question?

Sevan Matossian: (41:25)
Uh, if you would work for me, if I was CEO, I already know the answer I asked him many years ago.

Dave Castro: (41:29)
Yeah, I would fuck I’d work for him.

Sevan Matossian: (41:32)
Um, what is, what is your job now?

Dave Castro: (41:42)
so ,

Sevan Matossian: (41:44)
tell me Dave,

Dave Castro: (41:48)
The CEO and some of the executive team, and I’m also going to, uh, be an ambassador in the community from HQ, for, and get out and, um, kind of lean into the community, work with the community. Uh, talk to them. I’ve been going on a listening tour essentially with, uh, local affiliates, some affiliates, not quite local. Yes. I talked to some affiliates from Brazil and I wanna do that across multiple areas of the company. So I’m gonna do that within. I’m gonna do that in sport. I’m gonna do that in affiliates. I’m already doing that in affiliates. I’m already doing that in training. I have my own ways. I’ll do it, uh, in sport, not necessarily with sport team, but with the community, with the athletes, people like rich, um, people like Tia. So I’m gonna just get, I actually, it’s interesting cuz when I look at the world here, I was in sport and the games now I see myself here and I see myself here. So I see having a little more latitude to be involved across, uh, more of the, definitely more of the community and more of the company and you know, tremendous support from, from Nicole and Gary in that. So I’m really excited about, um, Nicole with me leaning back into training and Gary, Gary really wants to work me hard in, uh, hitting up affiliates and getting out and visiting and uh, supporting his EDU business. EDU I’m sorry. Uh, Jim business,

Sevan Matossian: (43:20)
Uh, note to Gary, you better keep him busy. This man is a builder. If he stays still for a second, he is gonna build something. Um, I, I, I, you come from a, um, I don’t know what it was like in, in the, um, Navy, but I’ve never seen a team that gives and takes as much feedback as the L one, um, training team or whatever you call them. Now the training team that works under Nicole, Carol used to work under you. The feedback is, is fast and furious and it’s not for everyone. It’s for people really who only wanna get better. It it’s actually was really, uh, gave me anxiety the way you guys would always be giving each other feedback. And recently I sat down with, um, six L one trainers. I think three of them were flow masters and they all talked about how it’s like the greatest thing that happened to them in their life. Getting sort of incorporated into that feedback loop that happens there now. You’re and I know, so I know Nicole knows how to work with that. What, um, and, and, and I, and I assume, um, Justin does too. You said you’re gonna be working with sports, so I know he will, but what about Gary and the other people in the other departments? Are they gonna be able to handle that type of, I mean, it’s, it’s raw over at CrossFit, it’s raw. What you guys do, the constant feedback loop,

Dave Castro: (44:32)
The

Sevan Matossian: (44:32)
Question, are they gonna be able to handle you? Are they gonna be able to handle the feedback you’re giving? Do you have to ch I mean, it’s a different landscape. Are you gonna have to change your protocol with how you engage with them versus how you used to engage with me or Nicole or with Justin? I mean, things were very high level of communication, not a lot of wasted words, very, you know, um, you just, you just pulled it like it is. And that whole L one team does that, that whole L one team squat deeper.

Dave Castro: (45:00)
A lot of the people I’ll work. I’ll be working closely with, uh, I’ve worked with for years. And even though, as I haven’t worked with for years, understand how I work, um, the feedback I’m giving to people, I hope, I don’t think I will, let me rephrase this. I’m not gonna come into some of these areas and, and I’m not expecting to, and I don’t want to, and just be like, oh, you guys are doing this all fucked up. This is the way you should do.

Sevan Matossian: (45:28)
Yeah. Yeah. That’s what I imagine. Yeah.

Dave Castro: (45:30)
Yeah. That’s

Sevan Matossian: (45:31)
Not like you would come into my office and you’d be like, dude, and I’d be like, what? That’s not,

Dave Castro: (45:36)
That’s not what I’m being asked to do, and that’s

Sevan Matossian: (45:38)
Not,

Dave Castro: (45:38)
I’m looking at doing at all. So I don’t think it’s as big of a problem as maybe not a problem, but as an issue as you were making it out to me.

Sevan Matossian: (45:48)
Okay. Well, I, I, for, for people who wanna get shit done, I give it to you completely, this common. Um, there’s a question here. I forgot to ask you, um, just small that’s, uh, advertised by the, my coffee sponsor paper street coffee. That’s how I get, uh, New Jersey guy, um, gets the beans and brew them and roast themself really?

Dave Castro: (46:08)
Uh, I’ve never, I dunno if people know this, I don’t watch your podcast, but you’re really sophisticated with your graphics and

Sevan Matossian: (46:14)
Shit. Thank you. I appreciate it. And my guests and my guests to match my guests. Uh, can you go back to that, um, picture again one more time. Sorry, Dave, I don’t mean to bug you about this picture. Um, so are these not seals right here? Were, were these army guys? I have it in my notes. What was Dave doing with those guys right there?

Dave Castro: (46:35)
I was in Iraq on a, uh, little deployment. They are army guys. My caption says the guy to my right is an 80 guy. And then, uh, the three others are army guys.

Sevan Matossian: (46:48)
And why are you with army guys?

Dave Castro: (46:50)
Just a little cross, uh, unit cross reading cross, uh, kind of make two groups work together who traditionally didn’t have a, uh, who didn’t work together too often.

Sevan Matossian: (47:02)
So you’re that? You’re not. So are, that’s not a seal team. I’m looking at

Dave Castro: (47:06)
Two of us are seals. The other three are not.

Sevan Matossian: (47:09)
And what are they? They’re like, um, green Berets,

Dave Castro: (47:11)
Something like that.

Sevan Matossian: (47:13)
Oh, Dave, I can’t know what you’re doing today. And I can’t know who these guys are. Uh, hold on one second. Let me see if Caleb knows Caleb, you know who he is with right here. You know, what’s going on here? Do you see anything that I don’t see?

Caleb Beaver: (47:26)
No, I think I Googled it one time and they just said like Dave Castro with ODA or something. I have no idea.

Sevan Matossian: (47:32)
What’s ODA.

Caleb Beaver: (47:34)
It’s just a, like a green bra unit, I think. I don’t know.

Sevan Matossian: (47:39)
Oh, so Michael Levine, Delta. Here we go. Davey, come on Davey. You can’t hide. Can’t hide from the group.

Dave Castro: (47:49)
His name’s Mitchell Levine.

Sevan Matossian: (47:51)
Oh, Mitchell, Mitchell, Levine. What’d I say Michael?

Dave Castro: (47:53)
Yeah,

Sevan Matossian: (47:54)
Whatever. Uh, let’s just go in hard now. We’ve 48 minutes. Let’s get over the softball questions. Um, that E coli article that, um, morning chocolate wrote, uh, and I choose these words very carefully. How did that make you feel?

Dave Castro: (48:16)
Oh, I mean, it was fucking a lie. Right. And, uh, uh, not good. I was like, okay. So there’s, I see the angle here two weeks after I’m fired. They’re gonna fucking say that I disregarded fucking, you know me better than anybody. If anyone says anything’s dangerous, put the, take that fucking thing off. I don’t wanna look at it, take it off.

Sevan Matossian: (48:37)
See, see feedback.

Dave Castro: (48:39)
Um,

Speaker 5: (48:42)
I can see Caleb. He’s like, he’s like

Dave Castro: (48:45)
Five fucking five times a day. Every day. Leading up to those events. I’m asking Danny or his brother or J Mac or anyone. Hey, what are the water conditions? Are we clear? Are we clear? Are we clear? And they’d always be like, yep. We’re, we’re in communication with the, uh, with the officials. And, um, uh, like there, if they said the water’s not good, I am not like, oh fuck that. Let’s put them in the water. My swim is more important. I could give a fuck. Like, Hey, I’m actually like, I don’t want the fucking responsibility of putting the athletes in water and getting them sick or having something happen because who’s it gonna reflect on me. So, um, that that’s, it was ridiculous when I saw it. And, um, I have a lot more to say on it and Mike, not right now, but I might say eventually the other thing too is, you know, when we swim in Santa one year at Santa Monica, um, the teams had started and it wasn’t actually Santa Monica, it was Manhattan and the lifeguard comes over and he goes, Hey, the teams just started.

Dave Castro: (49:51)
Uh, we just saw a shark of about like, um, couple hundred yards down the way. And I’m like, great, let’s pull this, let’s pull the swimmers out. He’s like, no, no, no, you don’t need to pull ’em out. And I’m like, well, what about the shark? He’s like, it’s not an issue. If he starts coming back, we’ll shoot him away. And I’m like, you’ll fucking, like, that’s, that’s, that’s your protocol. We’ll shoot him away. And, uh, yeah. He’s like, yeah, yeah, it’s an issue. I just wanted to give you a heads up. We’ll let you know if it becomes an issue. And like, that’s what I mean, like right there, I was like, okay, cool, pull ’em outta the water. And, and the safety people were like, no, stay, keep ’em in. But this notion that like, I’m so arrogant. And so like maniacally gonna continue on with my event, um, that I, I disregarded that is, is ridiculous. And, and the crazy part is how many people knew was a lie from our team, from my team. And like, yeah. I mean, everyone, it’s not true.

Sevan Matossian: (50:50)
Hey, it’s those same people. How, how lucky are people like rich and Matt and Tia? It’s those, it’s that same mindset that you’re accused of, um, protecting athletes from, from drug tests when they, when it’s the exact, when it’s the exact opposite, you would’ve loved to have just ended the event. If there was E coli, you would’ve loved to have ended a sharks and how you were. I remember you were like, if one of these motherfuckers is doing it, I’m catching them.

Dave Castro: (51:19)
The protecting of athlete thing in terms of drugs is ridiculous. And I think you told me that Hiller, he, he asserts that, right? He says that HQ, uh, protects or protects their stars. I would go outta my way to fucking make sure Dan Bailey and rich, and eventually Matt and these guys who are the best were tested. And, uh, we were testing all the time. And like I said, we’d go out of our way to make sure those who are the stars are tested on a regular basis. As much as we at the time physically could have meaning whatever our budget was for testing. Um, if I had my way and we had unlimited budget, we’d be testing ’em every, every few weeks, uh, and more and more and more athletes year round. Uh,

Sevan Matossian: (52:04)
Do you even get the logic of protecting them? Like, like they would think, I I’d never even understood their

Dave Castro: (52:09)
Logic. I do get the logic.

Sevan Matossian: (52:10)
What is the logic?

Dave Castro: (52:11)
It’s this? When rich retired people were like, oh, you just lost your biggest star. You guys are, um, you guys are fucked and I’m like, Hey man, like rich, retiring does not matter at all. Like the next person will come in. The next athletes will come up. The sport is bigger than any one athlete. And, um, it’s the same with Frazier when Frazier retired, it’s not done when tier retires it’s not done. So people think because of that, that we are leveraging these individual athletes so hard and propping them up and want them to carry us and to carry the sport. And actually, uh, and so we need to protect them because we can’t have our best, uh, pop because then we couldn’t have that person carry us. Uh that’s that’s, that’s not the case. Um, we could catch rich fing. It would be, we could bust rich Froning he’s not, uh, it would be a, it would be a stain on the sport. It would be embarrassing for him. Again. You wanna rephrase that? He’s not doing anything, but we would all move on the sport.

Sevan Matossian: (53:17)
We, yeah. Can you use Matt’s name as the example?

Dave Castro: (53:20)
I would, but I don’t wanna get destroyed on Rogan again for no reason.

Sevan Matossian: (53:24)
ah, I like it. When you laugh. I can see Caleb laughing. I can see Caleb laughing. Um, someone, someone se told me that the reply button on.com has been broken for a month. Can you have Dave fix that? Can, can you put that in your notes?

Dave Castro: (53:41)
I, I will put that in my notes. What’s the reply button,

Sevan Matossian: (53:44)
You know, the like in the blog, I guess when the there’s the workout of the day and then you get, can you try it right now? Caleb, can you go to crossfit.com and, um, hit the reply button and we’ll give Dave some real time feedback. He’s the king of feedback. He’d love to see. Um, have you, have you been asked by any since, since you were, were you asked to program any of the semifinals?

Speaker 4: (54:08)
No.

Sevan Matossian: (54:09)
Were, were just like that, you’re not, no. None of the semifinals contacted you?

Speaker 4: (54:15)
No.

Dave Castro: (54:15)
Uh,

Speaker 4: (54:17)
No.

Sevan Matossian: (54:18)
Uh, were you asked to, were, did the games team this year contact you in any way to, um, ask for programming, um, of, of the games or, or any of the programming they did this year. How about the change they did? Well, the answer that first, are you involved in the programming this year for the CrossFit games?

Dave Castro: (54:32)
No, but I told laws that’d be, uh, a resource or an asset or, um, available to help him in any way he needs.

Sevan Matossian: (54:42)
And, uh, what in the open, um, when they changed the, um, workouts, were you consulted about that even though you’d been fired?

Dave Castro: (54:49)
No.

Sevan Matossian: (54:52)
Do, do you think you will, by the way, this is the most common 90% of the questions. Want me to ask you these ques people want me to ask you these questions? Sorry. I’m almost a little embarrassed asking them to be honest, cuz it’s more than I care, but um, um, do you think you will be programming the games in the future?

Dave Castro: (55:12)
I don’t know.

Sevan Matossian: (55:15)
Hmm. That kind of keeps some hope alive.

Speaker 4: (55:19)


Sevan Matossian: (55:20)
What, what’s your, what’s your relationship like with, um, uh, bill Henneger? Um, a couple days ago, Andrew Hiller put out a video basically saying that, um, uh, bill Henneger is the Don Corleone of the fitness world. That basically he’s the guy in the fitness world. Like, you know, he’s the kind of the Jeff Bezos of the fitness world and that he can make things happen. And he, I don’t know if he’s joking, but he eludes that, that, um, he says, because that a week after you were let go, you were fired a sh Dave Castro’s shirt came out on, uh, rogue fitness and that he thinks that somehow Dave, uh, bill had his hands in your return, that he kind of, he, he walked over to, uh, CrossFit HQ and said, Hey, you guys gotta pay me back this favor and bring Dave back. I think he’s kind of joking, but what is your relationship like with, uh, bill

Dave Castro: (56:08)
It’s? Uh, really CLO we’re good. It’s good. We’re really close. Um, over the years we’ve grown, grown closer and become better friends. We’ve always worked together well, but through, and it, it was all, it all started with the games obviously. And actually before that, his first seminar was a seminar in Santa Cruz. Um, with, uh, Greg, I think Greg was, yeah, Greg was teaching. I was teaching. Nicole was teaching.

Speaker 4: (56:33)
And what year was that?

Dave Castro: (56:36)
7 6, 7 or seven. Eight. And it’s funny, he mentioned this to me the other day when I was with him, there’s a video, there’s an old video of me spinning or him spinning a tire on a bike because the concept two lady had us come up and she turned a bicycle over. And to, to talk about how the, um, drag function on a, um, on a concept, two rower works. She, she did this little display with, uh, with attire and he and I were in that video. And, um, so we go way back. He’s an affiliate owner from back then. I remember at another seminar, he came through to get his level two back then to get your level two. You only had to go to it, um, and be a staff member and you didn’t have to actually go to a course. And he taught there and he talked to me about the company, the company, he was starting.

Dave Castro: (57:26)
And he gave me a jump rope at the time. And, um, and the company he was starting was rogue. And then a few years later, uh, at the games 2009, eight, Katie won the games, his wife, I don’t think she was his wife at the time. So he was there at the eight games and then 2009, he started supplying equipment boxes and, and whatnot. And then as the years progressed, they became the official equipment provider of the CrossFit games. And so we had to work closely, um, a lot of ideas I’m looking for. I have this sketch of the big file, a lot of ideas, hold on. I think it’s right here.

Dave Castro: (58:10)
A lot of ideas over the years, um, I’d come up with and I’d, I’d sketch and send to him and then he would come back and he’d make it happen, or he’d have some ideas. So this on a flight once, this is like the original sketch of the big Bob. I sketch this out. I was like, we need something for the teams to push and pull. And I had all these different pat paddles on, but I was going through some of my old notes and I found this out, found this, and see, it says, uh, here, it says, hold on. Where here? Oops, wrong side here. It says, push here. It says pull. And that’s like, so I sent him this image or this sketch and that’s how he made the big Bob. So we had a great relationship, uh, over the years in terms of gear and, and then executing the games.

Dave Castro: (58:55)
And he’s had some great ideas for me, uh, specifically, you know, the rulers, he really pushed the rulers and the standardized floor. He pushed years before I had bought into it. And then finally I was like, yeah, that is a good, that is a good idea. And so he made that happen, but I think ultimately, um, around the time I was made CEO and, uh, Greg was, uh, Jesse’s still on. Yeah, he’s still on the company. At that time, he kind of really leaned in and started, uh, he gave me bunch of good advice and he stayed in contact with me even through the Greg thing before I made CEO and through all of that, um, it helped really, um, it, it almost took him more from a friend, just a friend, uh, relationship to more of, I started viewing him as a mentor and someone I could bounce ideas off, uh, bigger than just the games and, and, and get a good perspective and good guidance on. And when I say someone’s, when I say someone, I, I view someone as a mentor, uh, know that’s uncommon.

Speaker 4: (01:00:03)


Sevan Matossian: (01:00:04)
I, I, I almost, I almost fucking fainted. I felt myself get like warm. When you said that I got uncomfortable,

Dave Castro: (01:00:11)
Know that’s uncommon. There’s very, very, very, very few people I view or think of as mentors. Eric. Thank you.

Sevan Matossian: (01:00:28)
Glad the man is back

Dave Castro: (01:00:29)
Praise

Sevan Matossian: (01:00:32)
When I think of bill Henneger and I think of you, I think of two dudes that don’t talk.

Dave Castro: (01:00:40)
Yeah. I, I mean, I, that’s a pretty fair assessment. I don’t think people realize that about me either. I don’t know. Maybe they do more now than before. Um, I think people think like, I really want like the limelight all the time and I wanna be talking all the time. Um, you know, that’s not the case,

Sevan Matossian: (01:00:56)
If you, so here’s the thing about you and bill, if, if someone doesn’t talk to you, you don’t talk, you, you, you, you don’t need to say hi, you’re not big into salutations. You’re not big into those. Like a lot of those formalities, you know? And, um, in all the years that I saw bill Henneger at the games, if I, I don’t think I ever saw bill talk, unless he was spoken to, even though he was the king Dick, like he just basically stands there and shit just happens around him

Dave Castro: (01:01:23)
Is a, uh, a bad place to be in.

Sevan Matossian: (01:01:27)
No, no, no, not, not at all. So when I see, I, I kind of trip when I see that you go to Texas and when you go on these trips and you go to ranch, is it just the two of you?

Dave Castro: (01:01:37)
Yes.

Sevan Matossian: (01:01:39)
Yeah. Just trip on that. Do, are there long, long periods of silence?

Speaker 4: (01:01:43)


Dave Castro: (01:01:45)
Uh, no, I don’t think so.

Speaker 4: (01:01:48)


Sevan Matossian: (01:01:49)
What is one hour without talking a lot?

Dave Castro: (01:01:52)
No, we’re, we’re, we’re deep in conversation. Most of

Sevan Matossian: (01:01:55)
That you are,

Dave Castro: (01:01:56)
Yes.

Speaker 4: (01:01:58)
Wow. What a trip?

Sevan Matossian: (01:02:01)
What a trip, let me know. Uh, um, I’m, I’ll I’ll I, I don’t like to leave home, but let me know. Next time you go. I won’t say much. I just, I just wanna kind of, I wanna watch that. Um, I wanna watch that go down. No, you guys can’t call in right now. Don’t get crazy. No one get crazy and try to call in talk today.

Dave Castro: (01:02:15)
I will let you know.

Sevan Matossian: (01:02:17)
Yeah, let me know, please. That would be great. Um, wow. That’s crazy. Do you have any other mentors? Fuck,

Dave Castro: (01:02:25)
Intellectually. I think Greg was been a tremendous mentor over the years. Like the way he’s made me think of things, think about things, uh, perspective, because you know, like there’s nobody in the world. I don’t know a lot of geniuses. He is one of ’em. Right. And like, um, that was, that was something special. And having that relationship and having that kind of mind, who would make you think of things UN, traditionally and unconventionally, um, was, was super formative of like when I came out of the military and started working with CrossFit and when I was on the road with him in the beginning, uh, learned so much from him intellectually and just more like perspective and not being afraid to question. And, uh, , that’s funny and not being afraid to question, um, established norms, not being, um, also establishing definitions for discussion, how important that meant to, um, being on the same page, especially unwind that to like CrossFit.

Dave Castro: (01:03:34)
When we say fittest, when we say the fit fitness, or when we say, you know, we think we have the fittest, but we are claiming the fittest. Um, we’re titling the fittest, acting the world. Well, if you’re talking to a marathon runner to go back to like the global one analogy, their definition of fitness might just be running fucking 26.2 miles in two hours and 10, uh, minutes. And so if that’s how they define fitness and we’re talking about fitness, we don’t have the same definition of fitness there. We define fitness very differently. Then they do ours actually is mathematical and based in real science, thanks to Greg. Um, so for those reasons like Greg, I, I do see him and as a, as a mentor, um, other than that, you know, um, all my mentors are from the military. All my mentors are seals, all my mentors who I’d consider. And even in there, it’s the select few, but, um, for very different reasons, they’re mentors.

Sevan Matossian: (01:04:41)
When, when you were CEO, I’m gonna go back to something you said earlier that about, um, an exit strategy after 20 years when you were, um, and, and, and how it was expedited, um, your exit and how you didn’t like that. Um, but when you were made CEO, it was also kind of force expedited right now, at least you still, you could oversee it as opposed to being fired. You can’t even oversee it. What was your plan? Was that something in the short time that you were CEO that you thought of, oh, shit, I need to put a plan together for the games quickly. And, and what did that look like?

Dave Castro: (01:05:12)
So the plan for the games at that time was who gives a shit about the games . And I mean, that, cuz like once again, the reality is the community, especially the dis the, the, the fucking, it was just a mess. Everyone was pissed off. Affiliates were leaving, trainers were pissed off. Um, there was just so much like noise and so much, um, anger towards profi towards Greg that like, Hey, like let’s worry about the games. Fuck the games, the house is burning down. you know what I mean? Uh, seminars are getting canceled more for COVID, but not cause of Greg stuff, uh, affiliates are pissed off. We gotta, like, we gotta get our house in order before we worry about the shed in the backyard. And so like it, my perspective was, you know, we cannot think about the games for a minute and just think about, um, the things that matter at this point and really solidify it and make those, um, happen. There’s one, there’s one regret I have during that phase. I should have done more. I did a lot, but I should have

Sevan Matossian: (01:06:22)
Done. You should have done more.

Dave Castro: (01:06:24)
Yeah, I here’s what I mean? Um, so about a month into it, or maybe in a few weeks, I knew the sale was gonna happen. I knew Rosa was gonna come in and, um, there was still like a few weeks, three or four weeks of just like, um, people knew I was the CEO, but I knew Rosa was coming and the world didn’t in that period. I kind of just as respect to Rosa and the transition, I kind of shut down, not shut down, but just chill out on new things. I should have fucking, cramed a few more new things in . Uh, good things, good things for the community.

Sevan Matossian: (01:07:00)
Of course. Uh, I recently watched the Tahoe events from 2011 and 12 bill made a comment that he wants to bring manufacturing jobs back to the us much respect. I don’t, I I’ve heard him say that many times back then. Good. Uh, stuntman Mike. That’s really cool. You bring that up? Yeah. Bill’s a boss. Um, Tommy Rodriguez. This is for Dave’s whiskey fund. Not for, Chevon glad you’re back.

Dave Castro: (01:07:19)
Thanks Tommy.

Sevan Matossian: (01:07:22)
Uh, okay. I’m gonna be respectful. I was gonna crack some mom jokes your way, Tommy. Um,

Dave Castro: (01:07:29)
No mom jokes,

Sevan Matossian: (01:07:31)
No mom jokes on this show. Uh, when, when you, um, when you, when you became CEO, you immediately contacted me and you know, the, the entire media team had been fired for two years. And you had said to me, Hey, start putting the media team back together. And I said, absolutely. And um, I, one of the, I don’t know if you remember, I know you were juggling a lot, but we were gonna just kind of, we were gonna rebuild some of the old, I wanted to rebuild some of the old things and you’re like, Hey, don’t be stuck in your old ways. It’s okay to build old things, but fucking let’s do some even better shit. And you were like, really drive me. I want you don’t get comfortable and just do what we were doing.

Sevan Matossian: (01:08:13)
Why? And when I was there, Andrew Weinstein told the us several times he was running the media department. Um, and we didn’t even really know no one ever told me I wasn’t the media director or anything anymore, but just, he would just run the meetings and the meetings just sort of changed. There was no clear communication, but he would say to all of us, we’re a media company, we’re a media company. And I got really excited cuz that was the kind of talk Greg used to give us like in 2000, you know, I can’t remember, you know, 15, 16, 17.

Sevan Matossian: (01:08:41)
Why, why, why isn’t there a premium scene on that any anymore? Like the way I see it is is we made a huge mistake, firing the media, getting rid of Facebook, getting rid of Instagram and like we lost our voice. We lost control of our narrative and why isn’t there in the last two years? How come the journal hasn’t been brought back to the front? How come people aren’t? How come it’s not the, the O T T hasn’t been launched on apple TV. There’s millions of people have been trapped at home for the last two years. We saw Netflix and Amazon explode. How come CrossFits? I mean, we were a media fucking empire. We were running the fucking fitness shit. How come in? In the last two years? No, one’s instilled to this day. All of that stuff. I mean, it would be relatively cheap just to push the old library up to the front. How come or, or do you just disagree with me completely? Do you think that’s just, I mean, I’m open. Do you thinking it’s stupid?

Dave Castro: (01:09:29)
No, I, I don’t disagree with you and I don’t think it’s stupid. I think it’s absolutely something that should be continued on something that we should be doing and something that in the past couple of years, uh, arguably under Eric and this last year and a half, we didn’t do much of it. But as you’ve noted,

Sevan Matossian: (01:09:45)
I mean, Greg turned it off. I don’t mean to blame Eric, but, but Eric could have turned it on.

Dave Castro: (01:09:49)
Let finish, lemme finish going over the timeline. We didn’t do much of it under Eric in the last year and a half. And we didn’t do much of it for the last two years of Greg. Right. And so you said

Sevan Matossian: (01:10:00)
We didn’t do any,

Dave Castro: (01:10:01)
Yeah. Greg turned it off. Um, it’s been dead and then it continued to be dead. And you know, Greg and Jeff, they had a strategy that I think they thought was good and it could have worked and I really wanted it to work, but it just didn’t happen. And that was this notion that like the world will tell the story for us better than us. And, uh, we don’t have to invest in it part of the world being like morning chocolate, like they’re gonna get out there and they’re gonna tell the story of affiliates and they’re gonna, and the community’s gonna, the, the thing is no one can do it like us and no one will do it for us. And no one has the reach that we have. So to some degree letting others do it and, and continuing to support people in doing that. And if they did it more, uh, that would be great. But the problem is they don’t and they don’t. Um, and they won’t, and we actually shouldn’t think of others as the home for doing stuff that spreads the word for our community out there. So we should be grasping that we should be running with that and we should be doing more of it. Um, I think we’ll get there. And that’s one of the things that I really wanna drive is we should get to that point again.

Sevan Matossian: (01:11:19)
The, the world still does. Um, I, I, I look at, um, the people’s stuff like, um, um, the Paul brother stuff, and it’s like, it’s still, it’s still like grassroots me. I mean, they’re killing it with grassroots media. It’s not, it doesn’t even have to be highly polished stuff. As you know, do you think, I’m sorry to put you on the spot kind of here. Do, do you think that, um, that I’m doing crossfitted disservice by with my podcast, there was, there were like 111 comments the other day. And, and the one I focused in on interesting was the negative one. The guy was very gentle, but he basically said, Hey dude, um, don’t, don’t you think? Like,

Dave Castro: (01:11:58)
I

Sevan Matossian: (01:11:58)
Don’t so talking into criticism’s a little harsh, like, like, do you really think things are getting better? May like maybe are you trying to sink a sinking boat or are you trying to help a sinking boat? Like kind of what he I’m paraphrasing what he said and, and I, and I took it to heart. Like, that’s a fair question.

Dave Castro: (01:12:13)
So like I said, I don’t watch your podcast. Um, right.

Sevan Matossian: (01:12:16)
And by the way, people he’s not lying. He does not watch people in the comments are like, yes, he watches Hiller stuff. He does not. You have to know Dave. He does not consume, uh, media. Okay, sorry, go ahead, Dave. This

Dave Castro: (01:12:25)
Style of media, here’s the thing to that point. I’ve never watched there’s okay. That’s a lot. I can’t say I’ve never watched a podcast. There was one podcast I have ever watched. And that was your very first one with Greg Glassman. You, I told you, I pushed you into doing the podcast while you’re working CrossFit. You did it with Greg. And because I,

Sevan Matossian: (01:12:43)
You told me to do it with Greg, Greg, you go, and you better do the first one with Greg yeah.

Dave Castro: (01:12:48)
You asked me for feedback on it. And I said, okay, great. I’ll give you feedback and said, I push you into it. I was like, yeah, I’ll do that. And I did that and I watched it. And since then, I’ve never watched any fucking podcast Rogan or anyone. Um, I would rather listen to books or read books. And so that’s how I choose to, if I’m driving, I’m not listening to podcast, I’m listening to a book. Or if I’m stationary at, oh, I’m reading a book, it’s just a personal preference. Nothing. I don’t care. Like whatever, I’m

Sevan Matossian: (01:13:17)
Not books are good.

Dave Castro: (01:13:18)
I’m not talking ill of podcasts at all. Uh, it’s just my, but I do hear, I hear about your shit. I mean, it’s impossible not to you sometimes post shit people. Tell me about it. Um, so to your question, you are definitely fucking riding a line and I will say this, um, you’re supportive of the affiliates. You’re supportive of the community. And I think you too much go after CrossFit, the company. I do not think the company is a sinking shit at all. I think it’s, uh, it’s floating and I think it’s gonna continue to go downstream and passengers are gonna keep jumping on board. Um, I don’t, I, at this point, especially with me in this position, um, I wanna challenge you. I’m not gonna ask you. I want to challenge you to try to not spew negativity for the sake of sensational or negativity towards HQ or towards, I’ll just say HQ, um, give the, give us a chance and you know, if it’s not, um, give them a chance and believe a little more in the personnel and the people, and don’t think everyone is so, uh, vicious or has bad intentions, or they are purposely, uh, doing things to, to hurt the community or to not grow the company or to not, to, to take away from the things that you cherish across are the same things that I cherish and the same things that others cherish.

Dave Castro: (01:14:59)
So, yeah, I think you’re at times writing the line at times fucking across the line, for sure.

Sevan Matossian: (01:15:10)
I think there’s a slight mischaracterization. I, um,

Dave Castro: (01:15:13)
And, and check this out. Uh, this would be hard, but if you want a punching bag, punch me, um, avoid some of those others. So I, I fucking could take it, come at me. And, uh, and let’s start there. Let’s, let’s work through that.

Sevan Matossian: (01:15:27)
Understood. Um, I, I, um, just to be clear, I, I don’t think that most of the people are, um, um, that, that I go after and cross the line over are, um, mean people are doing it on purpose. I think it’s more, they fall on the camp of stupid, but that’s neither here nor there. That’s just my opinion. I don’t want to, I don’t think that there’s people on the ship who are like purposely, um, trying to hurt it. Uh, Dave, would you have not gone back there if you didn’t think it could be hugely successful again?

Dave Castro: (01:15:55)
One second.

Sevan Matossian: (01:15:57)
Take your time, buddy. Take your time.

Dave Castro: (01:16:03)
Okay, go ahead. Okay.

Sevan Matossian: (01:16:06)
Uh, was that your wife?

Dave Castro: (01:16:07)
No.

Sevan Matossian: (01:16:09)
Well then don’t do that again. Um, would, um, would you have, would you have not gotten on this ship if you didn’t think it was gonna be hugely successful?

Dave Castro: (01:16:19)
Correct.

Sevan Matossian: (01:16:20)
If you weren’t like, fuck, I can get on this fucker and paddle it. It can put a rocket ship on this.

Dave Castro: (01:16:26)
Um, CrossFit’s not going anywhere. The methodology, the, uh, the effectiveness of the programming, the way it can change lives. And the company is positioned in poised, cuz it is CrossFit to continue to accelerate those things and coming out of COVID and having essentially a good response to, um, chronic disease and health, uh, we’re poised to really just elevate and, and go even further with this whole thing. And it would be a fools play of me born out of ego for me not to have, um, reengaged in this beautiful thing that I’ve built and been a part of for 15, 16 years. And, and I say it would’ve been of it would’ve been of ego because it would’ve just been my ego against like, well, I got fired, I got canceled. A few people have said I got canceled. Um, I don’t know. What do you think of that characterization of it?

Sevan Matossian: (01:17:18)
Of getting canceled? Yeah, no, I, I can’t, I can’t even think of no.

Dave Castro: (01:17:23)
Okay. Got it. No, but a few people have described it as what happened to you as canceled. So I just wanted to,

Sevan Matossian: (01:17:28)
Uh, to, to you or to me

Dave Castro: (01:17:30)
Not to you, it’s not about you

Sevan Matossian: (01:17:31)
To me. I know, but I’m making sure I understand you. I, yeah, they, no, you weren’t fucking, you were fired. You were fucking, you were chugging along and working and said, the boss came back from fucking, um, uh, mental health leave and fired you and then vanished again. The whole thing is very weird. The whole thing is very weird. There’s a backstory in a, in a story there that would be fucking great as a book. Like there’s definitely something that happened behind the curtain. That’s fucking weird. Like this is UN unprecedented that an executive of your level and someone with your brand value would be fucking kicked to the curb and brought back. It is bizarre. Brilliant. And then the guy who did it is gone. I mean, it it’s weird. It, I, I’m not, I, I, um, I really hope, I really hope we know someday what happened.

Dave Castro: (01:18:16)
Interestingly, I’m being brought back, um, you know, like that’s a Testament to them listening and the leadership hearing, um, from staff and the community and understanding. So even let’s take this canceled notion,

Sevan Matossian: (01:18:30)
But Dave, but David’s more than that. I’m sorry to interrupt. But that was the same thing that, that the guy who fired you, Eric Rosa said was the reason kind of why he fired you cuz he was listening to people. He should.

Dave Castro: (01:18:40)
Can I say something

Sevan Matossian: (01:18:41)
Please? Yes.

Dave Castro: (01:18:42)
You’re not fucking sorry to interrupt.

Sevan Matossian: (01:18:45)
Oh,

Dave Castro: (01:18:49)
Keep going. Next question.

Sevan Matossian: (01:18:51)
Okay. Uh, when’s your next book coming out? When are you writing another book?

Dave Castro: (01:18:55)
That’s a great question. Um, I’m thinking about with Christine, uh, the lady who does my Instagram at the games, writing the history of the games, like the official history of the cross, the games, um, or doing it myself because the last book I wrote myself, uh, I’d rather have helped this time. I was really, when I wrote the first book, I was really like, I gotta write this. Like I can’t have anyone help me cause a lot. I’ll not all a lot of these guys in our community who are writing books are not writing their books. They’re sitting down with, um, people and sharing notes and then those people are turning ’em into books, which is fine. But I didn’t wanna do that. I wanted to write a book now writing a book. It was also more of a journal. So it was much easier to do than, than writing a book from scratch and having to research. Cuz I just basically chronicled the path. So whatever it’s a loaded, it was a loaded way of doing it. Even though I said, I wrote my book, thank you, Matt,

Sevan Matossian: (01:19:55)
New name for the podcast. Not sorry to interrupt.

Dave Castro: (01:20:00)
Oh. And I thought of something, uh, you, you back to the robe thing real quick with the t-shirts um, that was something that they had asked me to do for a very long time. Cuz they made all my hats. They said, Hey, can we sell your hats? And I always told them no bill and Katie. And um, they were like, can we sell your hats? And Tisha I’m like, no, not ready. I’m not ready to do it. Um, personally or professionally. Then once I got fired, I was like, Hey, remember when you’re like, can you sell my hats, trim that off.

Sevan Matossian: (01:20:27)


Dave Castro: (01:20:29)
That’s what that was about. Like, it’s not like they, they came to me and all of a sudden had that great idea. They had been talking about it for years. Like, Hey, your hat, your shirt with the logo. It’s pretty cool. We could probably sell it. And once they got fired, I was like, okay, you guys can sell it now. That’s that’s what I that’s what happened there.

Sevan Matossian: (01:20:46)
Okay. You ready?

Dave Castro: (01:20:47)
I’m ready.

Sevan Matossian: (01:20:48)
Race yourself. In some of these videos where I’ve crossed the line and maybe Andrew Hiller has crossed the line and other people have crossed the line as line crossers. Uh, there, the response from HQ seems to be, um, at, uh, and it seems to be consistent that what we’re criticizing the games for is not new and it’s not, this is all stuff that’s been going on forever. And it’s just, now that it’s being brought to the forefront, um, do run, um, what, what is, what is your, uh, response to that?

Dave Castro: (01:21:30)
So I had not paid close attention to this season. Um,

Sevan Matossian: (01:21:35)
Well, can I give you some examples? Can I give you some examples?

Dave Castro: (01:21:37)
Yes.

Sevan Matossian: (01:21:38)
Uh, there, there were some ropes that were left too long and uh, after supposedly Scott PCH said that, you know, said that they were too long and he, he fucking tweaked his knee on it and ended his career. Um, there were people who, the, one of the, that

Dave Castro: (01:21:52)
One, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say that’s not new here. Here’s the place that the not new comes from is like people have always been injured. So you can say people get injured all the time. Um, that one’s a little different than that. And I wouldn’t put it in that category. Keep going.

Sevan Matossian: (01:22:06)
Uh, there, there was people going to the semi-finals because the quarter finals, um, and people who didn’t go the wrong people went to the semi-finals because of some, some debacle around the quarter finals, uh, three, uh, workout. And there’s tons

Dave Castro: (01:22:20)
Of saying the not news stuff. This is not new. This has always

Sevan Matossian: (01:22:23)
Happened. Uh, uh, Adrian said it yesterday in the press conference is the, is the most recent time that I heard it. And, and, and possibly, uh, if I wanna give you another incident too, I’ve heard it a handful of times though. I wanna say that when, um, Adrian Conway and James Hobart were on with Lauren KLE, I think it was also possibly brought up there that basically that and my feeling is, is that’s not an excuse of why it should keep going on, but I don’t remember these things, this many things happening, this many negative things, leaks of workouts, the wrong people going, um, the judging being so bad athletes, shorting reps, just, it’s just been a cascade of fuckups. I feel like, um, pounds and kilograms not matching on the, on the game site. There’s just, there’s a shitload of ’em there’s like 57 things in the last, like four months or whatever this list that Andrew Hillers put together. Did you ever feel like the games was a shit show or, or do you feel like what, what they’re being criticized for now has always been,

Dave Castro: (01:23:23)
I never felt sh show, um, I don’t know if I would strategically advise to lean on that as like, um, a methodology for communication. If I was

Sevan Matossian: (01:23:38)
Meaning it’s always been like this. I mean, like I say, why are you doing that? And they’re saying, well, it’s always been like this.

Dave Castro: (01:23:44)
I’m saying if I was in charge, I would not advise my team to lean on that as a, um, answer to any of this or any of these. Uh, and honestly, in my eyes as a leader, I would not fucking accept that as an answer. Hey man, like then, then if it’s always been like this, why the fuck haven’t we fixed it? Why haven’t we learned why? Uh, and I like, I’d have to see this list of 54 or whatever you’re talking about. Um, right. Even when I was there, I would never have like cons when I was there at the games team. Let, let, um, I would not have leaned on that as an answer is how I’ll address that. Um, I think there’s a much better way to, to approach that

Sevan Matossian: (01:24:35)
Hiller is very direct, but I don’t think he dis he would disagree with tDCS feedback to Seon. Seon was much closer fired and driving toward tearing it down. Hiller is trying to clean it up inside out. Mike, go fuck yourself. I mean, thank you for your feedback. Um, it’s always been like this then. Why have we not fixed it yet? What a quote get with the programming, uh, the other day you did 35 mile R and we did it with a 35 pound pack. Originally, when I heard about this, um, it was supposed to be 50 miles and 50 pounds. I noticed it. Oh, you got your YouTube channel, um, fired up. Congratulations. I think the weekly review thing is gonna be crazy, popular, not

Dave Castro: (01:25:15)
Fired up. It’s been around for a while, but, um, yeah, I just decided to post a video

Sevan Matossian: (01:25:20)
On and you’re gonna do that and you’re gonna do that once or twice a month, three times a month.

Dave Castro: (01:25:24)
I’ll try to do it weekly.

Sevan Matossian: (01:25:26)
Yeah, that’s crazy.

Dave Castro: (01:25:27)
Yeah.

Sevan Matossian: (01:25:28)
Yeah. It’s, it’s a great video. I think the community’s gonna, um, but I, but I had heard that, that, um, when I spoke to you and Thomas Delore before it was supposed to be 50 miles and 50 pounds and you guys cut it to 35 miles and 35 pounds. And it sounds like that was smart. Like it almost killed you guys.

Dave Castro: (01:25:41)
Uh, 50 for 50, would’ve been really hard. 35 for 35 was hard. It was Thomas’, um, event, his call. I’m glad you made that call,

Dave Castro: (01:25:53)
Made that call. Um, 35, 35 miles or 35 pounds took us a very long time. Um, no, no, let me rephrase that. It didn’t take us a very long time. It was challenging. It took, we did in about 3.2 mile per hour, average on the pace, um, took about 10 hours time. I think it was probably 11 or 12. There was multiple stops where we had, so they could film stuff. Um, 50 for 50, would’ve been like a 24 hour. like a 24-hour type of thing. And, and that wasn’t the intent and it was fasted. Don’t forget that part.

Sevan Matossian: (01:26:28)
Uh, you don’t mention, um, in, in that week and review, you don’t mention time, you spent with your family, you don’t say, and me and my wife went out to dinner or I went, um, motorcycle riding with my daughter or any of the stuff I know you do. Why is there no mention of your family in there?

Dave Castro: (01:26:42)
That’s still like, I have this, uh, huge separation of that aspect of my life from, um, the public aspect of my life. And I want to keep those SEP separated and I don’t want to cross that line. I haven’t crossed that line in my social media. I want my private life to be private and like, that’s not such a crazy, I necessarily didn’t want, when I got involved in CrossFit to be thrust into this position of being, um, you know, a face in this community, it ended up being that way very early on. It was trending that direction. And I knew very early on, I didn’t want to, um, put my family in that position because of myself, especially my children. Uh, you know, I’ve said this before. I could see Rich’s kids right now, out at Walmart, in Cookville and I’d know who they are and rich could not be with them. Um, I don’t want my kids to be in San Jose or somewhere without me and someone recognize my kids. Um, that’s just how I have chosen to conduct myself on social media and run my life. And, you know, that’s why

Sevan Matossian: (01:27:51)
Interesting. Good. Okay. I like

Dave Castro: (01:27:53)
Your kids.

Sevan Matossian: (01:27:54)
Yeah. I hated the way you worded that. I don’t want anyone recognizing my kids when I’m not around either.

Dave Castro: (01:27:59)
Yeah. So that’s like, you

Sevan Matossian: (01:28:01)
Have to don’t fucking talk to my kids.

Dave Castro: (01:28:03)


Sevan Matossian: (01:28:05)
Oh, what a event are you training for in September?

Dave Castro: (01:28:08)
Uh, there’s this sniper it’s called the sniper adventure challenge and it’s a, um, it’s a two day competition out in Wyoming shooting competition, a partner competition where there’s land nav involved and there’s rocking and, um, there’s shooting drills and there’s other tasks that you have to conduct and do over the course of 48 hours.

Sevan Matossian: (01:28:31)
Okay. Here comes the doozy. I know you’re about to fucking kick me to the curb. That’s why I’m, I’ve sped up my cadence. Uh, what’s your message. Advice, guidance for us to drive forward and grow as affiliate owners, as coaches and separately for the greater community. That wasn’t my question, but since you paid $8, you get to ask it,

Dave Castro: (01:28:48)
Uh, do your job inside your box, exceptionally well, uh, be a great trainer, be a great caretaker of your, your, um, athletes or your clientele. And that’s the best we can expect and ask of you. And that’ll help the whole thing grow if you’re changing lives within your box, and you’re pursuing being the best possible coach. And again, caretaker that you can, um, you’re doing everything you need to do to grow as an affiliate and to drive, um, the message forward and out and, and supporting the greater community. Cuz the more members you have in your box that are thriving, the more they’re gonna share with the world and their family and friends specifically that, uh, there’s some magic here at profi and that’s how we can really impact communities and grow, grow the methodology and grow the brand. You guys do that on the ground. We have to do that nationally, globally. We have to get the message out. That same message of what you guys are doing on a local area. We need to spread it on a national and global level

Sevan Matossian: (01:30:01)
When, uh,

Dave Castro: (01:30:02)
That commonly well, well I think Greg originally said that,

Sevan Matossian: (01:30:05)
Right? Yes, of course.

Dave Castro: (01:30:07)
Yes. Adrian Conway might have said it today, but Greg originally said that no disrespect to Adrian. Who’s a good friend.

Sevan Matossian: (01:30:12)
Yeah. And, and, and Adrian would definitely give Greg credit too. Yeah. Um, uh, he did a great job commentating. He’s he’s a great guy. Was, was he, was he on the L one team?

Dave Castro: (01:30:22)
Yeah, yeah.

Sevan Matossian: (01:30:23)
Yeah. He, he he’s fucking the man when, when I was fired, there was, uh, five or six months period where I kind of Fu went a little bit underground. Um, I was, um, basically just completely recoiled into my kids. Um, you were nice to me. You made sure you kept reaching out to me. There were a couple of you who worked there who made sure I didn’t just disappear forever. Um, you would encourage me to do a podcast. Um, it was you and Matt, Susan, my wife, who kind of, uh, you, you could say a, mentored me to do that. And you, you went the extra mile, which kind of rocked my fucking world and came to my house and let me interview you my garage. And that’s what started up my, my podcast and that, uh, really rocked me and it got me going for a little bit and then I fell off the boat again.

Sevan Matossian: (01:31:12)
Um, but it was definitely the, the spark that got the, this whole thing. Um, going the, the fact that someone from that part of my life still, um, believed in me and in, and I appreciate it. And in that, in, in that podcast, um, there, there was, I, I wanted to go back and dig it out and actually play the clip, but I didn’t. And I, and I’m sorry. And I do mean it this time. Um, you basically said that when the, when the mob sort of came and attacked HQ, when there was all of this fucking noise being made on the internet and, and, and it was all around these comments that Greg had made, we got to see how those around us behaved in a time when the house was on fire. And I can’t remember exactly the words you said, but you said, you know, you saw, you saw how people behaved and, and you made a note like, okay, I got it. Check this most recent time that you were let go. You got to see that again. You got to see people’s action and behavior and mindset and verbiage when you were fired. Like you, you know, and I don’t, I don’t know exactly what you’ve seen, but maybe some people you saw like held onto and didn’t wanna let you go. And some people fucking, you know, kicked you out the door. Good writtens bitch. Um, did, did you have that experience again the second time? Like, oh, wow.

Dave Castro: (01:32:34)
Uh, the good writtens bitch part. I don’t think I saw much of here’s the other piece. Um, they’re, they’re like, I disconnected from my, at the day of Castro, the big account for a really long time. And so

Sevan Matossian: (01:32:47)
Even your Instagram account, you mean after you got fired, you kind of abandoned your Instagram account a little bit,

Dave Castro: (01:32:52)
Not completely abandoned, but I definitely disconnected from it. Um, there’s so many comments, so many different things. Like there’s a lot. I didn’t see. There’s probably a handful of people who are pretty vocal against me that I have no fucking idea about. There’s a lot of people who are probably very vocal supporting me that I didn’t know about either. Like there’s a lot I saw,

Sevan Matossian: (01:33:10)
I mean, more like in the workplace, like E as you’re moving your shit off your desk, someone’s moving in.

Dave Castro: (01:33:16)
I not, uh, so what’s the question.

Sevan Matossian: (01:33:19)
Uh, do, do, do, did you see that again? I know, I know we all saw it the first time and it was hard to see people we loved. Um,

Dave Castro: (01:33:26)
So there’s been a fuck ton of people who contacted me a lot of people from within you’re asking specifically within the company.

Sevan Matossian: (01:33:32)
Yeah,

Dave Castro: (01:33:33)
No, one’s contacted me and been like, damn, this sucks everyone. A hundred percent of everyone who’s, I’ve talked to has been like, uh, welcome back. So excited to be. Have you on the team, working with you again, then there’s another section who, who haven’t contacted me at all, um, of that group, you know, I can make one or two assumptions, one they’re excited or two, they’re not, I just dunno. And I’m not naive enough to think that like it’s a hundred percent across the board, within the company. Everyone’s excited. And of that cohort who didn’t contact me that they’re yeah. 99% of ’em are, even though they haven’t reached out and I’m not asking you to, I’m just stating the state affairs. So that group who hasn’t reached out to me, I can’t assume that all of them are excited about this. I am not an idiot. I know there’s a good number who are not, is that 50% of that group? Is that 20%? Is that 80%? I don’t know. And frankly, I don’t care, but I do know there are people who are not happy and you know, that’s part of life.

Sevan Matossian: (01:34:36)
Do you know why they’re not happy?

Dave Castro: (01:34:39)
Oh, I mean, like, uh, I’m, I’m like a, um, I’m not a fucking Saint for one, I’m a polarizing figure in, in, in application, in action in experience, meaning like, yeah, I’ve worked with people working with me. Haven’t always had a great fucking, um, let me say this. I’m not saying I’ve ever yelled at anybody I’ve ever fucking, I ever like take it to that level, but I’m very demanding of people and I can hold things in people to a really high standard. And oftentimes that can be very uncomfortable. And people, there are people who don’t like my approach to leadership, my approach to communication. And I’m not saying it’s criminal or negligent or wrong, I’m just saying it’s very different. And, um, it’s easy for individuals not to, for that, not to resonate with them and therefore not to like me. So, yeah.

Sevan Matossian: (01:35:41)
Uh, um, are you going to the CrossFit games this year?

Dave Castro: (01:35:47)
Huh? That’s a great question. Uh, I don’t know. Look, there’s a bigger chance now because I’m back with CrossFit, but that you can’t, you have no idea how fucking hard that will be on me. Meaning I fucking created and ran that thing top to bottom for the last 15 years, I took it to Madison. I made the decision, we were going to Madison, like there’s so many. And, and all those little things I’m saying right now, you’re gonna be amplified by a fucking thousand. When I get there, like my hand print is obviously all over that. So, uh, being vulnerable emotionally, it it’ll be, um, I don’t know, because emotionally it’s gonna be a huge, fucking huge challenge for me to go there. And you know, I’ve said for years, Hey, I don’t go to any of these pro and this is true. I don’t go to any of these CrossFit events unless I’m running it.

Dave Castro: (01:36:52)
Or it’s a local event. I’ll go to a local event cuz they’re small enough. And um, you know, I’m showing support to the community, but something like I’ve never, I don’t go to guap Polooza I don’t go to, I haven’t gone to bills event. I don’t go to, um, Dubai fitness challenge. I I’ve never gone to any of those big ones. And now the first big one I go to will be the one I created and I’m not involved at all. It’s uh, it’s a lot to ask of me and I don’t know if I’m ready to, so I don’t know

Sevan Matossian: (01:37:24)
Everything you said makes perfect fucking sense. I don’t know how you could do it. I, I don’t know how you could do it. The next question

Dave Castro: (01:37:31)
Is if I’m not there, it’s nothing against the team. It’s nothing against Adrian. It’s nothing against JM. Heather, all the people running the event, Danny, Billy, it, it is nothing against him. If I am not there or it’s nothing against the community or the affiliates or the CrossFit team.

Sevan Matossian: (01:37:47)
Of course not. Of course not.

Dave Castro: (01:37:48)
I’m not there it’s cuz of my own, like I need the space. Like I can’t it’s it’s my issue. And if I’m not there, I can G fucking to you. I won’t be watching it either.

Sevan Matossian: (01:37:59)
Ooh,

Dave Castro: (01:38:00)
No, no, no, but it’s not like, I’m not

Sevan Matossian: (01:38:01)
Saying I understand. I understand.

Dave Castro: (01:38:06)
It’s just, it’s like it’s me. It’s my thing.

Sevan Matossian: (01:38:09)
I understand. Is it, is it more like someone dancing with your daughter or is it more like someone dancing with your wife? uh, I really appreciate you coming on, dude. Crazy. Um, I, I, I hope I did. You proud? I know you always do me proud. I know fucking people love you to death. Um, and uh, and, and I, and I, and I hope, uh, we can do it again soon and, and, and let me know. And any, any, anything I can do, I appreciate the feedback. Um, anything I can do to help you, anything that you need from me, I, uh, will do to you and do for you, anything you want me to stop doing? I will stop doing, I have no issues. Um, you’ve been always a great leader, uh, in my life. And, um, you’ve taught me a lot of things amongst them all, uh, integrity as a man. So thank you. And uh, hold us

Dave Castro: (01:38:59)
Accountable, hold us to task, hold us accountable. But don’t like, don’t go into the dirt to do it.

Sevan Matossian: (01:39:05)
Okay.

Dave Castro: (01:39:06)
And some of the individuals, you know, give us, let’s discuss if, if you’re willing, I’ll discuss things and issues with you

Sevan Matossian: (01:39:16)
Free. Okay. Okay.

Dave Castro: (01:39:17)
And we can have, and if you want, if you want, if there’s something you wanna blast for, uh, talk to me.

Sevan Matossian: (01:39:24)
Okay. And

Dave Castro: (01:39:25)
I’ll come on and talk to you about it. Now, that being said on the sports side, fucking do what you need to do. Cuz once again, that’s entertainment. like, I, I would never tell Hiller to stand down. I wouldn’t tell you to stand down of the criticism of, of, of athletes or of the sport or of programming, because that is exactly what that’s there for. Like it isn’t, it isn’t, um, it isn’t what’s happening in the gyms. It isn’t what, it’s not that spec, um, it’s special in its own way in a different way, but it’s meant to, um, it’s meant to be criticized fundamentally.

Sevan Matossian: (01:40:03)
And L let, let me ask you about this then real quick. There’s only three, three minutes. Oh, this will take two minutes. How did Nicole car survive all this? How is she doing?

Dave Castro: (01:40:16)
That’s a question you need to ask her. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna answer that question, uh, for her or I’m not gonna represent her and that’s, I’m not even gonna go there. Um, that’s something you have to ask her and if she feels like she wants to talk about it, she can address it or talk to you about it.

Sevan Matossian: (01:40:34)
Yeah. Um, uh, um, I can’t let it go like that. Would you say that she was the, um, she’s been the rock in the, uh, for, for the, for the staff there in the last two years. Can you, can you tell me that?

Dave Castro: (01:40:45)
Oh, for sure. She’s uh, she’s

Sevan Matossian: (01:40:48)
Uh, I can’t imagine the pressure on her. I’m guessing everyone was leaning on her.

Dave Castro: (01:40:52)
Yeah, for sure. She’s been, she’s been the centerpiece, especially for the people who’ve been around for a long time, um, that they needed in, uh, during the last five or six months. Um, yeah, she, she stepped up and elevated to another level of leadership and just, uh, authority and presence. That’s been really impressive to see

Sevan Matossian: (01:41:14)
Dave, your true gentleman. Thank you for coming back. Manny, Sebastian and jut. Uh, thank you everyone for tuning in. Um, I will schedule another podcast with Dave as fast as I can. Don’t forget. We have Dale cran coming, former general counsel of CrossFit and Greg Glassman. Very so.