#389 – Joel Salatin

Sevan Matossian (00:02):

Bam we’re live. Sometimes I forget to put myself up there before we go live two minutes early today. How come cause I was two minutes late yesterday and there has to be balance in the you no verse, if you know what I mean, if you know what I mean right now there’s a CrossFit press conference going on. I requested to get into that press conference and I was denied. I was told that the press conference is for media. Only I responded with, I am the largest media coverage, CrossFit Inc. And CrossFit games has by several metrics, including fastest growing. I suspect if it wasn’t for that damn Andrew Hiller.

Sevan Matossian (00:56):

So I didn’t get into the press conference, but I can’t wait to hear about it. It’s almost better that I didn’t get into it because then now I can talk about it like hearsay. Ooh, I got some fun whoopy stuff for you guys in CrossFit stuff. People are sharing with me tonight. Ooh, tonight’s gonna be fun. We’re gonna move Alex Stein to, uh, 6:00 PM. No to Sunday night and tonight at 7:00 PM. Pacific standard time. I think it’s 7:00 PM. I’ve checked schedule. I’ll be going live with Andrew Hiller. It’s going be fucking fun. I wanna say it’s gonna be fireworks, but I don’t know if it’s gonna be fireworks, but it’s gonna be fun. You guys will like it. I will be in rare form. I’ll be amped. Um, I like, I, I, I like the fact that I, I requested to go to the CrossFit, uh, press conference today.

Sevan Matossian (01:41):

And their response was it’s only for the media. I mean, that’s a jab at me, right? That’s like, it’s, it’s not quite. It’s good though. I, I appreciate it. I wanted to write back nice one, Andrew, cuz it is pretty funny. It’s like, it’s like if I were to ask a girl out and she would look at me and like I only go with straight guys. I gotcha. Uh, we have Joel Salatin on this morning. Pretty excited. I did not know a lot about him. Uh, and now I’ve know a shit ton about him. Uh, what a small world. This is, he spoke at, um, one of the DDCS that’s used to be cross what he spoke at CrossFit health when CrossFit health was CrossFit health and oh buddy Dick butter shots fired. You don’t even know it’s gonna be not. Thank you, Jeff. It is going to be a wild one.

Sevan Matossian (02:29):

Uh, this evening it is going to be fun. It is. I’m gonna come out. I’m gonna come out, shot out of a cannon. We’ll be talking about the Whoopie. We’ll be talking about, uh, Justin Berg. There. There’s no point in talking about Dave caster anymore. All let’s just, let’s just look at the facts. Everything bad that’s happening at CrossFit games right now is because of the leadership, Justin Burke, it’s all. And whether it’s true or not, it doesn’t matter. He’s the leader over there. That’s the guy, every step of the way has been a colosal shit show. They got their second biggest sponsor tiptoeing out of the room. I have verification on why they are tiptoeing out of the room and uh, Ooh. It’s it’s it’s crazy. It’s exactly what I speculated. Okay. Back to Joel. So back to Joel. So, uh, this guy, uh, not only has he been on a gazillion podcast, including Joe Rogan. Um, but he is also, oh, you know what? I should give him my phone number in case he’s having trouble getting it. Let me see. Um, Excuse me. Sorry. Will I do a little house cleaning here?

Sevan Matossian (03:38):


Sevan Matossian (03:41):


Sevan Matossian (03:54):

Here’s my number in case you have any, my favorite part is I can’t wait to see, find out who was at the press conference, cuz they’re gonna claim that every everyone that they’re claiming who went to the press conference is, um, is, uh, straight. And I was banned because I was gay and I just can’t wait to look around the room and be like, uh, no, those guys are gay too. And before someone writes something stupid in the fucking comments, that’s a similarly. That’s not like that. That’s a similarly based on the joke I cracked earlier, I know, I know, I know YouTube keyboard warriors don’t get that stuff. What? That they ban gay people from the press. I had no idea. No, they, they don’t ban gay people from the press conference. At least not that I know of Austin last night, I didn’t sleep. I didn’t sleep much at all. Last night I was like hovering over my body all night. It was weird. I tried never to sleep. I just do, uh, energy body every night. That’s where you, I just, uh, put all my attention on my body and then usually I am. Um, and then usually I fall asleep pretty quickly, even though I’m trying not to, I sleep on my back with no pillow when I fall asleep. And then when I

Sevan Matossian (05:09):

Wake up, I don’t know when that is an hour later, two hours later, I turn onto my side and I put a P and I use a really thin pillow at that point. It’s like right next to me. And then I put a really thick, long like body pillow between my knees, put my arm around it like that. What’s up with all the attention. My forearms are beginning. They’re just the same forearms I’ve always had. Good morning. Eric Whoopie says you should sleep though. I know. I know. And, and you probably should sleep. I do. Um, I, I, in the middle of the day, almost every day, I, I go vertical also vertical, sorry, horizontal. Oh, he Joel, Joel. Um, uh, I’m trying to get on, but it’s asking for Cameron Mike settings and I have no idea how to proceed. Wow.

Sevan Matossian (05:59):

Okay. Oh, um, oh damn. And you know what? He warned us. I think he warned us. He said, he said, uh, can we do zoom? I always have problems with other platforms. I was like, fuck, no, this’ll be fine. Shoot. Oh shoot. Um, can you call me and I will walk you through it. Let’s see. Uh, oh, don’t give away your phone number on the air. That’s bad. I don’t know if that would be bad. Okay. Here we go. Uh, send him an email back. Um, I wonder what it’s gonna say. What we’re gonna do here. I’m starting to get a little anxious. I’m not sweating yet. That’s good. Thick and long. I thought Falkowski was at mayhem. I know me too, but I guess he’s not. He’s in the back of mayhem. It’s not exactly accurate to say at mayhem he’s in the back and must. Actually’s getting long enough that when I put wax in it, it’s starting to like be able to brush it to the sides.

Sevan Matossian (07:25):

Uh, we were supposed to have Alex Stein, uh, a couple days ago. Um, he had a tummy ache. Then we rescheduled him to today and now I’m gonna try to reschedule Alex to, um, um, Sunday night. Isn’t it funny that the, uh, while I, while I wait for Joel to respond, isn’t it funny that the, the morning chocolate posted that article saying that there was gonna be a press conference today? I think that that’s the kind of inside information you get, you get to be the guy that leaks the information about the fake press conference, because you’re the guy who printed the fake story about E coli and smear. Dave, you get how that works. So I I’m speculating of course, but let’s say CrossFit Inc reached out to a morning, chalk up ones like, Hey, we fired Dave and we wanna smear Dave. Now we post this article and making some shit up about Dave being a bad guy.

Sevan Matossian (08:17):

They then print that article and then to scratch their back in return, they get to post, uh, notification about a fake, uh, press conference. And why is it fake? Well, because I was told that I couldn’t come and I’m pretty sure Andrew, Hiller’s not there. And I’m pretty sure we’re the, we’re the biggest guys in the space when it comes to press just, we’re just a little teeny drop compared to the compared to Matt Fraser, but he’s not press right. Just a teeny little drop, teeny drop Alyssa car. Dang. Guess I’ll have to be the guest. You guys can watch me do dishes and homeschool my kids.

Sevan Matossian (08:58):

Oh no, I can’t believe we’re gonna drop the ball on this. I did so much of fucking research for those of you guys. You don’t know Joel. So is, he’s a, he’s a minister of the land. He’s a minister of the land and he takes that shit seriously. Oh, wow. Okay. Well I’m hearing that the press conference was, uh, uh, no, Boyo that it was tough to get through and that the games will be in Madison in 2023. Mm mm mm. Right, right. Uh, he’s a minister of the land, Joel. Salatin what does that mean? I tell you what it means. I wanted to read this when he was on there. I thought it was he, uh, let me see if I can get this exact quote.

Sevan Matossian (10:09):

He’s a Christian libertarian environmentalist. Don’t screw this up Chevy. This is, this is the, this is the line I saw, um, in one of his videos or was on his website if we devote ourselves and, and I finished the show last night with this, as you guys recall, if we just, if we devote ourselves to sacredness in our vocation and you could translate that to, if we are present in our day to day job, if we treat our job, like we’re servicing God, that’s how I take that. If we devote ourselves to sacredness in our vocations, the world will rise to meet us. And for me, the only thing that the touch point for that is, is when I set my expectations high for my kids, they reach them, they reach them.

Sevan Matossian (10:58):

I expect them to be kind to people. I expect them to be aware of their surroundings and that, and, and, and when you do that, when you live your life like that, and when you devote yourself to the sacredness in your vocation and the world rises to meet you, that becomes your personal ministry. And what I mean by that is, is everywhere you go is your church. You treat everywhere like it’s church. I’m gonna say all this again, when he comes on, I’m just rehearsing now. Thank you guys. Have you met Joel in person before? And uh, I think I did meet him, uh, in, uh, Santa Cruz once, but, but I don’t know, but I know my mom reme speaks it so highly of him. She saw him speak there when, uh, at that conference and I was there too, and she speaks so highly of him. Oh man, this is not good. He’s not responding to the email. Mm. Maybe can I FaceTime with Joel? Uh, can I FaceTime with Joel Sal and see if I can get him on, uh, Gandhi said this thing somewhere, somehow, someday you cannot separate religion and state because your life is your religion. Meaning that everywhere you walk around that, that’s your presentation of how you, what, what you think of, of your existence. Do you guys get that? Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

Joel Salatin (12:41):

Yeah. Okay. My, my brains here got me on <laugh>.

Joel Salatin’s Wife (12:46):

It was a team

Joel Salatin (12:47):

Effort. I don’t know what you did.

Joel Salatin’s Wife (12:49):

Well, I just unchecked boxes and then rechecked them. Oh,

Joel Salatin (12:52):

Man. Drives me

Joel Salatin’s Wife (12:53):

Nuts. But streamy yard is so finicky for us for some reason.

Sevan Matossian (12:57):

And Joel warned me in the arrogant Poist little man that I am. I was like, no, no, it’ll be fine.

Joel Salatin’s Wife (13:02):

Oh yeah. Yeah. <laugh> now, you know. Okay.

Joel Salatin (13:05):

Thanks Wendy. Thanks Wendy. We’re

Sevan Matossian (13:07):

All. Thank you, Andy. You’re

Joel Salatin (13:09):

Welcome. All right.

Sevan Matossian (13:13):

He’s a minister of the land as I was just sharing with the live viewers. Uh, if we devote ourselves to sacredness in our vocations, the world will rise to meet us.

Sevan Matossian (13:27):

And then he goes on to say that your life is basically your personal ministry. That’s how I took that. And I was just breaking it down for the people, Joel, that if we devote ourselves to sacreds in our vocations, meaning a new UA, maybe to say that was, is this everywhere we went? We were present. If everywhere we went, we treated the world is as if we were interacting with God for, for maybe those Christians, the world would rise to meet us. The only thing I can think of there is, is that I set expectations for my kids and they live up to them. And when I set them low, they don’t live up to them. <laugh> but when I expect them to say thank you, and to be pleasant, human beings, they live up to that. And then that is your personal ministry. And that’s where Gandhi says, um, uh, you cannot separate church and state because your life is your walking religion.

Joel Salatin (14:14):

Yeah. That’s that? That’s exactly right. Uh, you know, if it, another way that, that some people say this is, is intentionality, uh, so you, you do stuff with intention and I’m convinced that most of us, you know, most of us go through life kind of unintentionally, you know, we do what we do, what somebody else thinks we ought to do. We do what society expects us to do. We do what, you know, uh, um, you know, friends tell us to do. And we, we buy a car because everybody’s buying a car, we buy a house because everybody’s buying a house. And the, and the type of house we buy is because everybody buys that kind of, you know, we just, we just kind of go with the, you know, go with the thing. And, uh, uh, um, um, I, I think that we need to really, uh, step up here to the plate and, and be intentional about the, you know, the things that, that we do.

Joel Salatin (15:10):

I mean, for me, for example, I just got back from two weeks of traveling and speaking at conferences and doing some farm consults and things. And so I had in the last two weeks, I’ve had 10, you know, 10 airplane flights. And I try to make a point not, not to, not to take the, the, the water, the drink, the whatever on the plane in, in general. I mean, sometimes I’m, you know, I’m just stuck and I can’t get anything, but so why have to use a cup? You know, we shouldn’t have to use all those cups. Uh <laugh> I, I don’t know where they all go. Uh, probably not to the best place in the world. And, and, and so, you know, I don’t, I don’t wanna be a cultish about this or, or be too anal, but, um, but you know, it, it, it does, it does matter, um, you know, what we do, how we live and, and, and that sort of thing, and, and being intentional about it is I think of, it’s a, it’s a power, it’s a powerful tool of, of affirmation, of affirmation, of our responsibility and privilege here, you know, on the planet.

Sevan Matossian (16:18):

I think that’s the first time I’ve heard the word privilege used correctly in, in three years,

Joel Salatin (16:22):

<laugh> you? Yeah. <laugh> yeah, we, we get it, we get it. A lot of, of other uses don’t we <laugh>,

Sevan Matossian (16:31):

Um, you know, Joel, this wasn’t my intention to go down this avenue, but I think what happened coming from a man who was a, a die hard tree hugging do good or liberal, um, that I used to be. Um, I think a lot of it comes from the fact of words and, and the, and, and, and, and, and just a confusion of what we think actually good, uh, means. And the, the example that I’d like to use, um, coming from Berkeley, California, which has been in, in sort of the whole bay area, which has been decimated, imagine we’re sitting at a restaurant, you and, uh, 300 other people. And, uh, I think it would be cute to feed a seagull. That’s flying over a breadcrumb, right? And, and what’s wrong with that? I’m feeding a Seagul, it’s a benevolent action. I’m sharing food, I’m sharing sustenance, I’m sharing it with this other creature of God that shares the planet with me. And I throw up this piece of bread to this seagull and within 37 read to the Siegel. And within 30 seconds, the whole restaurant is fucking destroyed because a thousand Siegels have descended on it and shit on everyone. <laugh>

Joel Salatin (17:28):

Yeah. They, they, all, they all found there was a, there was a free lunch somewhere didn’t they?

Sevan Matossian (17:33):

Um, and, uh, and we call it good. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, and, and so, so for years as a liberal, I was, I, I could hide behind that word, but I’m doing good.

Joel Salatin (17:41):


Sevan Matossian (17:42):

And it was, it’s kind of like, Sourcery, it’s like that magic book that you think in the second grade exists, right. It’s like Harry Potter shit, it’s actually happening here. CA spells have been cast on our, on our, um, on our fellow human colleagues.

Joel Salatin (17:54):

Yeah. You’re exactly right. I, I think a perfect example, uh, for, for, in, you know, California, I just spent a week there, uh, last,

Sevan Matossian (18:01):

I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I live here. I met you here in Santa Cruz, California once, by the way. Very briefly.

Joel Salatin (18:07):

Yeah, it was, it was, it was a, it was a great, great time. And, um, but you know, when I go there or see what’s going on there, it strikes me for example, the, um, you know, the, the need to cut trees. Um, you know, it, it sounds so good to, to let the tree, you know, uh, not cut trees and yet trees are living things just like anything else. They get old, they get dye, they get crotchety, uh, they get diseased. Uh, some of them are really, um, you know, really not healthy. And, um, and so, uh, you know, do we, do we just, do we just let, let it proliferate, you know, to where you have huge, huge wildfires, or do you, for example, get on in there, uh, with some, with some goats and some cows and prune down the biomass, some chainsaws, and as permaculture would say, you know, uh, more forest and fewer trees, weed, the trees.

Joel Salatin (19:06):

So they’re not quite compressed. And you start, you start exercising that ecology. And, um, you know, what we have right now is ecology by abandonment. Uh, as you look back on, on the human experience, anyone who’s thinking, uh, realizes that, that we do have a lot of shame to carry the way, you know, humanity has interacted with the ecology for, you know, the deserts are manmade, the, you know, erosion of the dead zone, the size of Rhode Island and the Gulf of Mexico. I mean, you look at the civilizations, have risen and fallen based on, you know, ecological, um, uh, Conor mentality. So, you know, let, let’s all, let’s all repent and stack cloth and hashes about that, but then let’s not stay there. Let’s use our intellect and our mechanical ability to now, uh, use our hands and our heads to interact with nature in a healing capacity.

Joel Salatin (20:00):

Let, let, let’s throw all of our healing capacity at it, just like we’ve thrown our exploitation capacity at it. And, um, and we can have a whole lot better, uh, place place to live. And, and, and that takes, you know, that takes really thinking through intentionality. And I understand, I understand why thinking caring people say, well, I don’t wanna touch ecology because whenever humanity touches it, it seems like we heard it. You know, I, I, I, I totally get that and I, I get that burden, but it, but, um, but the, the fact is that that we have harmed and it’s time to heal. So let’s turn our harming into healing and let’s interact it. What that means is that we maybe don’t have to have as much, uh, fire as our ancestors did say in California where, you know what it was, it four, 4 million acres a year burned, you know, pre-European, um, but what we now have are chainsaws, and we have wood chippers and we know how to compost, uh, aggressively, and we can, and we can begin, um, you know, using this biomas to grow earthworms and build organic matter in the soil.

Joel Salatin (21:13):

And, and, and that means a real direct, uh, visceral interaction participatory, uh, participatory persona, you know, with the ecology,

Sevan Matossian (21:24):

Uh, at true 4 million acres of California would burn every year in the, you know, in the stone age.

Joel Salatin (21:31):

Uh, that, that’s my understanding. Yes. I mean, people go back and forth on that, but yeah, it was, it was a dramatic, uh, a dramatic amount. And, um, and, and a lot of those fires of course, were lit by the native Americans who were living there, um, to, to not only, um, you know, freshen up the vegetation, but to bring the, um, the large, the megafauna, you know, the, the bison, the elk, the, the deer and the things that were there, they would be drawn to these fire areas, uh, to lick the charcoal that was a source of mineral and, um, uh, uh, mineral and supplementation for them. And so while certainly the fires did kill some wildlife in general, um, fires were a strategic way to attract wildlife to an area, uh, you know, in order to make sure they had minerals and, and that sort of thing.

Joel Salatin (22:26):

And, and, and to, just to, you know, to freshen up the landscape. So there was this, this kind of rotation, this strategic, I mean, the Aborigines in Australia did the same thing. Um, you know, in, in the, the greatest estate, which is a wonderful book about how the Aborigines, um, you know, developed and maintained that Australian landscape. Uh, again, there was a, there was a very strategic, you know, uh, uh, burning system, but they, they, you know, they didn’t have chainsaws. They didn’t know about, you know, aggressive, scientific, composting today. Uh, they didn’t have front end loaders. They didn’t have, you know, uh, uh, manure spreaders and plastic pipe to ensure water. I mean, you know, there, there were, there were a lot of things that they didn’t have, but their, um, their systems, uh, actually built soil and guaranteed, uh, you know, a, um, an abundance system for a long, long time.

Sevan Matossian (23:20):

Uh, I’ll get back to California here in one second in those 4 million acres, Colton Mertons, who’s one of the top 100 fittest men in the world writes I’ve I read a few of Joel’s books, mostly good stuff. Oh, mostly let’s very nice of you. Colton a Colton works on a pig farm, uh, in the middle of the country with 16,000 pigs. He does that by day with his father, uh, Joel, and, uh, in the morning and night, he trains to be the fittest man in the world, which, uh, is his goal. He’s, he’s, he’s a regular listener. Good dude. So California is a hundred million acres of land. 43 million acres are used for agriculture. Insane of this 60 million acres are for grazing and 27 million acres are crop land of those 43 million. I just looked that up really quick on Google, who knows if it’s, uh, correct.

Joel Salatin (24:12):

Yeah. Well, that’s a, that, that’s a lot of, that’s a lot of land and in fact, um, a lot, a lot more should be used, uh, you know, Amer America has Amer you know, we’re, we’re in this time of, uh, supply chain issues, you know, empty store shelves, lots of, you know, uh, food inflation, things like that, you know, America right now has, has, um, 50 I’m sorry, has about 35 million acres of lawns and 36 million acres, uh, housing and feeding, recreational horses, uh, that 71 million acres that’s enough to just about feed the whole country without a single farm. So, you know, um, this, this notion that, that agriculture, um, devastates the landscape is, is kind of axiomatic within the culture now. Um, but I would suggest, and, and that that’s of course, where bill Mo and Dave Horen developed the term P permaculture to say, can we have a production system that is permanent, that is a permanent agriculture that doesn’t wear out abuse or destroy the land base.

Joel Salatin (25:21):

And that was course the impetus for the idea of permaculture. And, and, uh, so what we’ve demonstrated here certainly on, on, on our farm here in Virginia, is that we can absolutely have an agriculture that is, uh, that, that builds soil. I mean, we came to a, a, a gully rock pile, uh, that wouldn’t, you know, that wouldn’t, uh, feed 10 cows and today, you know, it’s a, uh, it, it, it’s a hundred and the rock piles are covered up with soil that we did not, we did not carry soil there. The soil actually just built up like, like a, like a scab, like a scab on a wound on your, on your hand. And we would just watched it gradually the soil just grow over the rocks over, you know, over half a century. So I know it can be done. And, uh, and we can farm in a way that actually, um, you know, actually build soil, just like, like the, like the millions of bison and the, you know, the, the 2 million wolves and the elk and the deer.

Joel Salatin (26:19):

I mean, Otman Ottoman sat under a tree in 1830. And he said, said, I couldn’t see the sun for three days because the passenger pigeons, uh, blocked out the sun for three days, that was before Tyson and Pilgrim’s pride and, and <laugh>, you know, and, uh, uh, foster farms and all the other, uh, outfits, uh, came along, uh, you know, we had 200 million beavers, uh, pre-European that, that ate more vegetables. I mean, beavers are, are, uh, herbivores that, that ate more vegetables than all the people in north America today. So, you know, it should give us all pause to realize that 500 years ago, north America grew more nutrition than it does today. Even with, uh, you know, with irrigation, John Deere tractors and hybrid seeds.

Sevan Matossian (27:05):

Uh, one of the, um, uh, uh, listeners is making fun of us. Um, he, he, Jim Jim says AEV has met his match for not paying attention when other people are talking, Hey asshole, listen, I’m taking notes and he’s taking notes. So we don’t forget stuff we’re old. Okay. Now, you know how old people were <laugh>. Uh, are, are you Venezuela immigrant Joel

Joel Salatin (27:28):

<laugh> no. No. Uh,

Sevan Matossian (27:30):

You’re you come on, be honest. You’re born in Venezuela.

Joel Salatin (27:33):

No, I wasn’t born in Venezuela. I, I was born, I was born in Ohio,

Sevan Matossian (27:37):

But I was born. Oh, like my mom, like my mom. Yeah.

Joel Salatin (27:39):

I, I was only there for six weeks before our family went back to Venezuela. So my dad, my dad, uh, went to Venezuela, um, in, you know, 19 whatever 49 or, uh, 48 and, uh, wanted to have a farm there and did in fact buy a, buy a thousand acres. And then he married mom and we went down, but you know, this was cold war McCarthyism, 1950s. They didn’t want to have, you know, problems with us, citizenship and all that. So they, they came back to the states briefly to have, uh, each of us, my older brother and myself, but, uh, pan pan, pan American, wouldn’t let you fly unless you were at least six weeks old. And so, uh, they came back to have me and, and, and, uh, I wouldn’t come and wouldn’t come and wouldn’t come. And so finally they, they had to induce moms. So we had our return plane tickets, right. I had to be six weeks old. And so they induced mom to get me out in time to make the flight back to Venezuela. So I was only there for, I was only there for four years. I, I was four. When we came back to the states, we, we got caught in a, in a Huta, you know, with, uh, pet Jimenez there in 1959. And basically we, we fled the back door, the machine guns came the front door and, uh, and lost. Was it,

Sevan Matossian (28:54):

Was it that close? Was it really that close? Yeah,

Joel Salatin (28:57):

It really was. Well, you know, what happened?

Sevan Matossian (28:59):

How old were you at that point?

Joel Salatin (29:01):

I, I was four. My older brother was seven. Uh, our, our, our younger sister hadn’t been born yet, but, um, you know, a lot of people don’t realize that when there’s anarchy, when there’s, when there’s this kind of, um, anarchical disturbance in a, in a country, it, it gives license to settle a lot of, um, scores that otherwise wouldn’t be settled. And so what happened was, uh, we had already started raising, we were out there on the land. Uh, we were raising chickens and, you know, in those, uh, in those countries, not as much today, but certainly more then, you know, you didn’t have electricity. And the way the, the, the cities got food was the, the farmers would come in to their stalls, you know, to their, uh, to the square city square and, and set up, you know, and, and, and the vendors vendors would buy the Papai as the bananas, the chickens, the whatever, and then, and then take them through town, like a, like an ice cream truck, except it wasn’t ice cream truck. It was the, and so.

The above transcript is generated using AI technology and therefore may contain errors.

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